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 Post subject: Re: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:30 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
Posts: 1366
wilcoxon wrote:
What is the logic for it not applying?


I believe this has already been explained, but once again:

The Encyclopedic Knowledge Talent states: Benefit:
"You gain a bonus to all untrained Knowledge Action Skill Rolls.."

There is no Action Roll involved, merely a benchmark. Either you meet the Requirement or not. No Action Roll involed.

Since there's not an Action roll, the Talent benefit is not triggered.

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 Post subject: Re: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:37 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
Posts: 486
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Because Encyclopedic Memory is a representation of what you may have picked up. Your knowledge in a single field gives you a better chance (hence, the dice roll) of knowing a tidbit of information than someone completely untrained in a field of study. The thresholds presented in the Blessed Lands book are represented as what a dedicated scholar has specifically learned and knows (no dice roll needed) in that field of study. To assume that someone with an Encyclopedic Memory who has only studied Trade should automatically know about the Second War of Extinction just does not make sense. But, in studying Trade practices of Ssethregoran races, they may (roll) have heard something about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:39 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
Posts: 486
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Wow...trifecta of independent answers within 10 min if each other....lol.

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 Post subject: Re: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:43 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1314
wilcoxon wrote:
Like toodeep, I would have expected Encyclopedic Knowledge to apply to things like this. What is the logic for it not applying? To me at least, Encyclopedic Knowledge represents a wide breadth of knowledge in many topics (the breadth being represented by the -5 which is enough to make really obscure knowledge unknown without the actual skill).


I considered the same thing and went back and looked at the Talent. The Talent and others like it that grant bonuses to untrained skill rolls significantly increases the likelihood that at some point the character has encountered some snippet, passage or note somehow dealing with the topic. You may remember something overheard or a passing reference relevant enough to pull out a key detail.

The information presented in the Blessed Lands book is collated for the convenience of us the audience, but does not represent an equivalent tome within the world for easy reference. There's no "Blood Wars - How We Did It" anthology to reference. The knowledge represents the accumulated knowledge gleaned from the study of a wide range of sources over a long period of time. An untrained skill roll represents a check to see if the PC happens to remember something very specific on the topic applicable to the problem at hand. Think about the length of snippets within mods for knowledge checks compared against the 39 published pages of detailed history.

As Henry pointed out, should a piece of knowledge from within the book be important to a story, there would be a skill roll provided at that time with all applicable bonuses applied. You may recall an obscure reference to a second war of extinction (20 ranks required otherwise) against a race known as the Eladru. But the timeframe, length, difficulties in persecuting the war and the role the gates played in it requires a depth of knowledge that SHOULD be reflected in a lifetime of study for an obscure topic without sufficient references in existence to review.

In terms of the usefulness of the various talents, one of the approaches I've seen and used with Knowledge checks is if you have the various feats and your untrained roll would be better than trained, you can do it untrained. You just add one set of bonuses or the other, not both. Basically the untrained roll reflects knowledge gained outside of your core focus. "Well, I've spent a lot of time studying the history of the Coryani Empire, but I do recall coming across a treatise on the Second Gift of Althares written by a famous Coryani scholar who wrote..." Taken n that way you get a balance of the two approaches.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
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Location: Portland OR
The ranks make excellent guidelines and I would encourage people to follow them when thinking about what your character knows.

But you also know what you learn through play which creates all kinds of loopholes and exceptions (or deceptions). Do you claim to know of the Il'Huan War? Well you need to have 7+ points of fame with the ES or the AZ...or you need to be an elorii or a ss'ressen...or 15 ranks of Knowledge (History). OR you have to have met one of the above in play...including any PCs who may have played at a table with you. Of course this assumes they know the truth, have told you the truth and that you find their wild stories credible. It also doesn't mean other scholars don't laugh you out of the room if you present obscure facts as history.

If you have the talents of encyclopedic/eclectic memory I don't think too many judges are going to object to you potentially claiming at least some "extra" knowledge. If you were hovering one rank short of the knowledge history or myth ... I'd probably throw you that bone as a judge. You've made a mechanical investment.

As a judge I don't see how the ranks would actually be "enforceable" at a table. Player talks about crazy history. I raise my eyebrow and say really. They say ... "Hey I traveled with an elori who told me ..." I shrug and move on.

Ultimately the game is a collaborative exercise. Make reasonable choices. Unless the knowledge is vital to your character concept follow the guidelines...

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Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:48 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:45 pm
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"...The DARK MOON is an Egg I tell you!!! The Green Moon is made of Moldy Cheeze. The stars are diamonds. While the Sun is an overly large torch"

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 Post subject: Re: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:51 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 632
val Holryn wrote:

...[SNIP]....As a judge I don't see how the ranks would actually be "enforceable" at a table. Player talks about crazy history. I raise my eyebrow and say really. They say ... "Hey I traveled with an elori who told me ..." I shrug and move on.

Ultimately the game is a collaborative exercise. Make reasonable choices. Unless the knowledge is vital to your character concept follow the guidelines...


Actually, I like the idea of ranks equaling in game knowledge. Just remember that a lack of knowledge does not mean the lack of an opinion.

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There once was a gnome called Oozy,
Who kissed a Yaricite floozy.
But rather than wed,
She drowned him instead,
Now he is a Yaricite toosey!


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