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 Post subject: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:14 pm
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Location: Calgary, Canada
Hello,

I have a question that has to do with the history listed in the new Blessed Lands book and a Val'Abebi character.
In the history section of the Blessed Lands book it says how you need X requirements for your character to know certain facts, usually it's X ranks in a knowledge skill.
Well I have a val'Abebi character with the bloodline (I forget the name, I don't have the book with me at the moment) that allows me to make any knowledge check untrained with a bonus equal to my bloodrank. I'm purposly taking as few knowledge skills as possible, and taking all the bloodline talents, so that I have a high bloodrank to do most knowledge checks untrained.
How does this tie into these requirements of the Blessed Lands book? Would my character be treated as having my bloodrank worth of ranks in all knowledges and thus will know some of history mentioned in the book? Or do I specifically have to take knowledge (history) (or the specific knowledge skill) to be able to know those? Or should the DM allow me a roll each time such knowledge would be valuable since it is untrained?
How much does my val'Abebi character know about the history of the Blessed Lands and First City?

Thanks,

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Auraine Val'Abebi - Philosophic Warrior
Quintia Val'Mehan Delphinia - Psionic Inquisitor
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 Post subject: Re: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
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Location: Central Alberta
Ranks in a Knowledge Skill represents formalized training and education in a field.

The val'Abebi Bloodline talent (Wisdom of the Ages) specifically states that you are untrained, but gain a bonus on active skill rolls.

In this case, your val'Abebi would NOT know this information automatically, but should it come up in the mod Althares would grant you the information you wish in divine revelation or you hear the 'whispers of your ancestors'. For this you would make an active (if untrained) skill roll with a big bonus, but because you have not actively studied the material you would not qualify under the rules of this book.

Sometimes book learning has its advantages ;)

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Cody Bergman
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 Post subject: Re: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:14 pm
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Location: Calgary, Canada
So I don't automatically know it, but I will have the opprotunity for Altheres to give me the knowledge.
Fair enough, and that makes sense now.

Thanks!

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~Attentea~

Auraine Val'Abebi - Philosophic Warrior
Quintia Val'Mehan Delphinia - Psionic Inquisitor
Quin - Berokene dagger dual-weilder
Varinia Val'Mehan - Legionnaire Fighter, Apophic Spear weilder (d20)
Celes - Lifewarden (d20)


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 Post subject: Re: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
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Location: Central Alberta
We need to include SOME bonuses for the people who have burned Ranks to train their skills. Talent bonuses (like the Bloodline ability) reflect a character being a prodigy of sorts, able to instinctively know how to do something better, but not fundamental understanding in a given field. I might be able to pick up a trumpet and play it beautifully in a fully improvised way, but that doesn't give me the ability to read music or understand the pseudo-Italian of musical notation.

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Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 802
Location: Michigan
Nierite wrote:
We need to include SOME bonuses for the people who have burned Ranks to train their skills. Talent bonuses (like the Bloodline ability) reflect a character being a prodigy of sorts, able to instinctively know how to do something better, but not fundamental understanding in a given field. I might be able to pick up a trumpet and play it beautifully in a fully improvised way, but that doesn't give me the ability to read music or understand the pseudo-Italian of musical notation.


Yes, but the same question applies to the bonus from Encyclopic knowledge, which does reflect extensive learning. If you have a +6 bonus to your untrained knowledge myths and legends because you have an 11 knowledge history, do you know something that requires 6 ranks in myths and legends or not? From the intent of the talent, I would think so, since it reflects your wide breath of research and incredible memory, but according to the base interpretation it shouldn't. If it doesn't, it significantly reduces the value of the talent since there is no roll associated with whether you know or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:58 pm 
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If you do not have the listed number of RANKS in the given specialty, you do not know the information.

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Cody Bergman
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Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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 Post subject: Re: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:03 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
Posts: 1361
Hello,

Cody is correct.

I added these threshold knowledge ranks because for many years, I kept being asked, "Does my character know this?" Now you have a benchmark to see if your character does or not.

If it comes up as an issue in an adventure, a roll will be called for and then you can add all applicable bonues, etc. But as a rule of thumb, this is what's needed for your character to know the information.

Pretty straight forward.

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 Post subject: Re: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:38 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 632
Hey even the dim witted get a lucky guess. But that does not mean they can rationally articulate why they are right. Think of it this way. With north south east and west as orinal points. There is a one in four chance to guess the sun rises in the east. But the educated know that illiirs chariot travels east to west. As for that whole arcanis travels around a star theory.... That's heresy.

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 Post subject: Re: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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Like toodeep, I would have expected Encyclopedic Knowledge to apply to things like this. What is the logic for it not applying? To me at least, Encyclopedic Knowledge represents a wide breadth of knowledge in many topics (the breadth being represented by the -5 which is enough to make really obscure knowledge unknown without the actual skill).

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 Post subject: Re: Character Knowledge for Val'Abebi with bloodline
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:28 pm 
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Location: Central Alberta
The answer is simple: Because you are not trained in that, and therefore do not know it.

Remember, an active Skill Roll can represent you remembering something you smelled a decade ago and never thought of. It is the random chance in life, the sudden epiphanies that hit us all at times. Encyclopedic Knowledge, like Wisdom of the Ages, represents your ability to recall these random, passing facts.

Skill Ranks, on the other hand, represent trained, learned expertise in a given field. In terms of Knowledges specifically, you have made it your vocation (or, at least, an avid hobby) to know this information and the skills relevant to it.

Either way: NO, talents and other situational talent-based (or non Skill Rank based) bonuses do NOT count as prerequisites for the learning of this knowledge. Should an appropriate knowledge check come up in an adventure, these talents will help you make the check (think of it of finally putting 2 and 2 together to get 4 after decades of never thinking about it before), but they do not give you the right or ability to know this information in character beforehand.

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Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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