| Paradigm Concepts http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/ |
|
| Why does Steel Dragon require TWF? http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2127 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | wilcoxon [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why does Steel Dragon require TWF? |
Looking at Steel Dragon closely, I have to ask why it requires TWF? All of the abilities are solely around the Steel Whip and using TWF is pretty much useless (Steel Whip is not light so -3 on both attacks to hit and Steel Dragon is a Stance so you can't use Balanced Blades to reduce it). |
|
| Author: | mighty28 [ Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why does Steel Dragon require TWF? |
Well, under the "Chosen Weapons" section of that fighting style, it states that the style is designed around using a steel whip and " a smaller, off-handed light weapon". |
|
| Author: | wilcoxon [ Mon Jan 25, 2016 11:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why does Steel Dragon require TWF? |
Yes but nothing in the style itself actually makes use of the "smaller, off-handed light weapon" and, since the steel whip is not light, you get the worse penalty for TWF (-3 instead of -2 plus can't use Balanced Blades to reduce it). Mechanically, TWF (and training/skill in the light balanced weapon) is nothing but a talent/skill tax. The most effective use of Steel Dragon is to never actually use TWF or the light sword (unless you're using it just to eat away at recovery since its speed is probably faster than the steel whip). |
|
| Author: | Harliquinn [ Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why does Steel Dragon require TWF? |
The Tier IV ability is the capstone and uses TWF Tier IV: Once per scene, while in this stance, when you successfully knock someone prone with your steel whip you may follow up with your off-hand as a basic Free Strike against that target |
|
| Author: | wilcoxon [ Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why does Steel Dragon require TWF? |
Except that doesn't even use TWF - it just uses a second weapon (I assume this is to bypass the big TWF penalty which would more than negate the TE bonus to hit (for prone)). I suppose part of my issue may be that I've never been very happy with Arcanis TWF rules. For a cost of two talents, you have a -1 to hit and are in a stance (so you can't use any other stance such as Defense, Forward, or any fighting style). That's a really high cost for the benefits. |
|
| Author: | Nierite [ Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why does Steel Dragon require TWF? |
Two-Weapon Fighting isn't a stance, as it is a Simple Combat Maneuver (ARPG pg. 312). Two-Weapon Fighting (ta) isn't a stance, but is a simple Combat Talent (ARPG pg. 211). Steel Dragon IS a Stance, and cannot be combined with another Stance. |
|
| Author: | Harliquinn [ Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why does Steel Dragon require TWF? |
It uses a weapon in your off hand, meaning TWF. John |
|
| Author: | wilcoxon [ Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why does Steel Dragon require TWF? |
Nierite wrote: Two-Weapon Fighting isn't a stance, as it is a Simple Combat Maneuver (ARPG pg. 312). Two-Weapon Fighting (ta) isn't a stance, but is a simple Combat Talent (ARPG pg. 211). Steel Dragon IS a Stance, and cannot be combined with another Stance. But Steel Whip is a non-light weapon making the penalty -3 for doing TWF with it. Even adding in Balanced Blades (which is a stance) only decreases it to -2. TWF is marginal until you add in Balanced Blades and/or Spinning Strikes. Fighting styles effectively remove Balanced Blades as an option since both are stances (leaving you with the damage increase from TWF and Spinning Strikes but the -2 or -3 to hit on both attacks (which is significant)). If I recall correctly, someone ran the numbers and found that for average TNs, it works out to around 5% so that's 10% or 15% less likely to hit. |
|
| Author: | Southernskies [ Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why does Steel Dragon require TWF? |
That's the price you pay for learning a Fighting Style. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. This is not an issue if your non-whip is the light weapon. Quote: Two-Weapon Fighting [Combat] You suffer a -2 to hit with both attacks (with a further -1 if one of the weapons is not light). Once both attacks are resolved, increase your Clock by the slower weapon’s Speed +2. Having the talent, it does not matter what order or weapon you attack with; just that one of the weapons is not light. Depending upon the combination, the whip can be designated as the off-hand weapon without any further penalties. Steel Whip + Sidesword: 1. Steel Dragon + TWF/Spinning Strike = -2 Whip, -2 Balanced (Stance until next action) 2. Balanced Blades + TWF/Spinning Strike = -1 Whip, -1 Balanced (Stance until next action) There is nothing stopping you swapping between Stances each time your action comes up. |
|
| Author: | wilcoxon [ Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why does Steel Dragon require TWF? |
Southernskies wrote: That's the price you pay for learning a Fighting Style. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. This is not an issue if your non-whip is the light weapon. Quote: Two-Weapon Fighting [Combat] You suffer a -2 to hit with both attacks (with a further -1 if one of the weapons is not light). Once both attacks are resolved, increase your Clock by the slower weapon’s Speed +2. Having the talent, it does not matter what order or weapon you attack with; just that one of the weapons is not light. Depending upon the combination, the whip can be designated as the off-hand weapon without any further penalties. Steel Whip + Sidesword: 1. Steel Dragon + TWF/Spinning Strike = -2 Whip, -2 Balanced (Stance until next action) 2. Balanced Blades + TWF/Spinning Strike = -1 Whip, -1 Balanced (Stance until next action) There is nothing stopping you swapping between Stances each time your action comes up. Huh. I think I've been misreading and misplaying the TWF penalty. I was always reading "if one of the weapons is not light" as "if either one of the weapons is not light" (which is where I came up with -3 for Steel Dragon). If your reading is correct (and I think it probably is) then it would only be -2 as long as the off-hand weapon is light, That "extra" +1 does make it better. |
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|