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 Post subject: Weapon Training (Unarmed)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1036
Do you have to take Weapon Training (Unarmed) or is everyone considered proficient with Unarmed? I'm assuming everyone is proficient but I can't find anything that says one way or the other.

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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Training (Unarmed)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:16 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 632
You have to take it to get the tricks. You have to have melee unarmed to avoid the penalty.

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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Training (Unarmed)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1036
So the only characters that can get the Unarmed weapon tricks are:
  • Ssressen
  • Experts that burn their "any weapon" proficiency for Unarmed
  • Initiate of the Gods and Templars of Anshar or Jeggal Sag
  • characters that spend a talent to gain Training

The other major "problem" is that Weapon Mastery (Unarmed) requires Weapon Training (Unarmed).

That seems really limited.

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Steve Wilcoxon
Ss'kethis - Expert Holy Champion of the Fire Dragon 3.1
G'hyu'thyh Sungha - Martial Templar of Illiir 1.7
Eryk Bauer - Martial Awakened 1.2


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Training (Unarmed)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:53 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
Posts: 486
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Think of it this way:

Scenario 1:
You are up against 12 year old kid never taught how to really throw a punch swings at you....he is untrained and draws a free strike.

Scenario 2:
Someone who has training, despite level of proficiency (aka...ability to hit with strikes) can attack you, but has not learned enough to do nifty pugilistic tricks.

Scenario 3:
You are fighting Ronda Rousey. Not only do you need to worry about her ability to connect, you need to worry about what wrong angle your limbs will be in when she is done.

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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Training (Unarmed)?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:26 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1036
Matt, I understand the differences of Weapon Training (Unarmed) vs skill in Melee (Unarmed). However, it just seems odd how hard it is in Arcanis to actually become fully "trained" in Unarmed. Gaining the Weapon Training is very limited. Gaining Melee (Unarmed) is more open but still somewhat limited.

Overall, Unarmed is almost as limited as Double Spear which is supposed to be a very rare weapon. This seems very weird.

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Eryk Bauer - Martial Awakened 1.2


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Training (Unarmed)?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:13 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:44 pm
Posts: 146
Location: Cajun Country
Steve,
Lets put it in perspective. For the ancient Olympics how many people (% of total population) trained for Pankration? How many people in the US are legitimately* trained in martial arts?
* I say legitimately in that it would be viable in a combat situation against an armed & trained opponent. Since that is the level of proficiency we are talking about.

I just hit 14 years of martial arts training with a focus on self defense and am probably only equivalent to a character with unarmed training and a few ranks.


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Training (Unarmed)?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:00 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1036
I don't know enough about Pankration to really make any useful comment. For comparison to the US, you are much more likely to run into a gun than melee weapon (and vs a gun, any melee weapon (or unarmed) is very likely to lose). More importantly, Arcanis is a fantasy world with orders of warrior monks - yes, at least part of that is because it started based on D&D (they do seem to be downplayed in ARPG).

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Eryk Bauer - Martial Awakened 1.2


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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Training (Unarmed)?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:04 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
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Location: Central Alberta
In Arcanis as with our own world, anyone can throw a punch, but if you are not trained in it it is much different than if you have received training. Without training you can have too weak of a punch, or you could have bad form and waste a lot of energy. The difference of those who have been shown how to throw a punch and those who are wild amatures is represented by the skill Melee (Unarmed).

Weapon Training (Unarmed), which unlocks weapons tricks, represents formalized training in a martial art. You can use your punches for more than "hit that" with Weapon Tricks like Stunning Strike. While the skill represents you having been shown how to punch, the talent represents what you can do with a punch.

Weapon Mastey is just that, a level of mastery in the weapon. It shows that you are so proficient in the weapon that you can hit more accurately, hit harder, or generally be more effective with your hitting.

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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Training (Unarmed)?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:28 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 801
Location: Michigan
I understand there isn't supposed to be a tradition of unarmed combat throughout the known realms, and that is reflected in the lack of unarmed being a region weapon skill. I find this extremely odd, but I accept it. The only place I think there is a disconnect in the rules is in the pirate islands. Unarmed fighting is important enough there that it is one of the base skills available for people from the region - which seems to me to indicate a significant unarmed fighting tradition in the islands, but for some reason unarmed fighting isn't a weapon proficiency associated with the region. I find that odd.

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 Post subject: Re: Weapon Training (Unarmed)?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
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Location: Central Alberta
For reference: The Roman legions did not teach unarmed fighting. There was not really a need for that since they were heavily armoured. From what I figure, the only reason there were D&D style monks in Arcanis was because there was a D&D monk class that had to be worked into the system. That is likely why the concept became more scarce in the modern rules.

Without an established unarmed tradition, the best you'll find in a society is "avid hobbiests" by comparison. The Pirate Isles it makes sense because of the stereotype of drunken brawls associated with pirates in our cultural view of them.

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Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


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