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Push - Technical question
http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2077		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  Davebauder [ Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Push - Technical question
This is exactly why I posted this thread. There are many opinions out there, and no real consensus. You could go to 3 different tables and have three different rulings, and by the wording in the book, all could be correct. That is why I am looking for an official ruling here. If Matt has the PCI standing to say, "This Is SO!", I am totally cool with that. But as far as I know, for a rules interpretation question, I need Pedro or Henry to stamp it.
Author:  PCIHenry [ Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Push - Technical question
Hello Dave,

Davebauder wrote:
If Matt has the PCI standing to say, "This Is SO!", I am totally cool with that. But as far as I know, for a rules interpretation question, I need Pedro or Henry to stamp it.


Matt does have the say so and is the current rules "guru" at this time.

So, inasfar as Rules go, Matt speaks with PCI backing and approval.

Thank you.
Author:  Davebauder [ Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Push - Technical question
That's FANTASTIC. Thanks Henry, and you rock Matt.

OK, using Southernskies' example, can you walk me through what happens tick by tick?

1. Cast a spell (Spd:1, Strain 5)
2. Mighty Swing (spd: 5, Recovery 2); Strain at 5
3. Strain at 4
4. Hit by PUSH 2; Strain at ?
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.

Thanks for taking time to clear up this issue for the campaign and for dispelling confusion. That's why I love you guys.
Author:  Davebauder [ Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Push - Technical question
mighty28 wrote:
Cody is correct. Push pushes everything. (you are considered under Push until your next Tick on the clock). If you had it otherwise, if you suffered "Push 2" and adjust your clock, then those 2 Ticks expire, you could again suffer Push (effectively keeping you locked out of a combat).


Got it. And we spent some time talking about it, so let's see if I can repeat it back with different words but still correctly.

When you get pushed, EVERYTHING on your clock gets delayed by the amount of the push. This includes the time until your next action, the time when any strain or recovery from the last action starts resolving, AND the number of ticks it takes for any strain or recovery to resolve, even if it is from actions that have cleared on your clock. You are considered to be under a push (for the purposes of getting pushed again or when you can once again voluntarily push yourself) until the next tick you can act.

Have I got that right?
Author:  wilcoxon [ Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Push - Technical question
I don't see why suffering Push should effectively increase your amount of Strain or Recovery that is already counting down. On the other hand, it's unlikely to make a difference unless the amount of Push is greater than any non-zero Strain/Recovery you would have had on your next action.

So, to go with an example:
1) character's previous action gave him 3 Strain and 5 Recovery on tick 1 - does a basic action (next up on tick 5) so Strain and Recovery are counting down
3) character gets Pushed 3
8) next action after Push

When is the 3 Strain gone? On tick 4 or tick 7?
When is the 5 Recovery gone? On tick 6 or tick 9?

My view is that they should be gone on the earlier ticks as there is nothing in the rules that says anything about increasing Strain or Recovery on a Push.
Author:  Davebauder [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Push - Technical question
wilcoxon wrote:
So, to go with an example:
1) character's previous action gave him 3 Strain and 5 Recovery on tick 1 - does a basic action (next up on tick 5) so Strain and Recovery are counting down
3) character gets Pushed 3
8) next action after Push

When is the 3 Strain gone? On tick 4 or tick 7?
When is the 5 Recovery gone? On tick 6 or tick 9?


According to what Matt said, the correct answer would be 7 and 9. Matt, care to confirm?

(PS, I personally don't care one way or the other. I was just tired of all the inconsistency. With a fighter/caster the version you prefer would be better for my primary, but since our opposition has to deal with the same, I have no problem with it.
Author:  archangel [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Push - Technical question
I have always understood it as push basically pausing any countdown to your next turn, but you are considered under push until that next action as well. It takes looking at speed and the clock backward from how many people do. I don't use a d12 or clock I use a dry erase board for my games, it is easier for me to keep up with and doesn't fall over when someone hits the table. So when someone takes an action I start the count down until they can act again, with strain/recovery doing the same. Each tick everything goes down by 1, but when pushed your count down doesn't move.
Author:  wilcoxon [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Push - Technical question
archangel wrote:
I have always understood it as push basically pausing any countdown to your next turn, but you are considered under push until that next action as well. It takes looking at speed and the clock backward from how many people do. I don't use a d12 or clock I use a dry erase board for my games, it is easier for me to keep up with and doesn't fall over when someone hits the table. So when someone takes an action I start the count down until they can act again, with strain/recovery doing the same. Each tick everything goes down by 1, but when pushed your count down doesn't move.


So, if I'm understanding what you are saying, using the previous example, Strain would not be done until tick 9 and Recovery until tick 11? If so, I completely disagree with this interpretation.

I don't like what Dave thinks Matt's ruling is either but it should only rarely have an impact on play (so I can live with it).
Author:  archangel [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Push - Technical question
Let me lay it out this way. Tta is time to act, ie how long until they can act.
Tick TtA Str Rec Push
1 5 3 5 none
2 4 2 4 none
3 3 1 3 3
4 3 1 3 2
5 3 1 3 1
6 3 1 3 0
7 2 0 2 still pushed
8 1 0 1 still pushed
9 0 0 0 You can act and are not considered pushed
Author:  The Vault [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Push - Technical question
Thanks archangel, your chart really clears it up for me.

The only rule I wasn't aware of was that I am still considered in Push until I take my next action.

As for the rule itself.
On the one side, I'm looking at my Arcane Caster with Arcane Shield and Counterspell and considering changing his build because I can't Push myself like I thought.
On the other side, mighty28's comment has me thinking about a character build that can lock someone out of combat forever especially a caster, or a big boss.

I'm always a fan of knowing the proper rules.
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