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 Post subject: Push - Technical question
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:22 pm 
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Hi all.

I am looking for an official ruling on how push works. It's fairly vague in the rules.

"These effects Push a character’s Clock, which means that the character advances his Clock by a given amount without acting."

In an example where a character has five ticks left before the next action and he is pushed by two, does that mean

1. There is a two tick "push" added before the character continues counting down the five ticks toward the next action.

2. There is a two tick "push" added after the character continues counting down the five ticks toward the next action.

3 The two tick push and the five ticks toward the next action are added together and the entire seven ticks are considered to be under a two tick push.

As far as I can tell, two and three would have the same effects in combat, but I may be missing something. I believe that number three is the most common ruling, but all three fit the definition for push and they have slightly different consequences for how they would affect combat.

Thanking you in advance for the clarification,
David Bauder
Cauter Val Virdan

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 Post subject: Re: Push - Technical question
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:11 pm 

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#3 is how I've always run it and always seen it run.

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 Post subject: Re: Push - Technical question
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:20 pm 
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Push always happens first. You are being forcibly delayed, but if you were going to string an arrow and we're pushed 3, you could actually act after 3 ticks and aren't delayed 5 as you could choose not to (or stop) stringing the arrow

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 Post subject: Re: Push - Technical question
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:33 pm 
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#3 is closest, but it can get really complicated to explain when Strain and Recovery get added it.

eg.
1. Cast a spell (Spd:1, Strain 5)
2. Mighty Swing (spd: 5, Recovery 2); strain starts reducing
4. hit by PUSH 2 (strain continues to reduce as previously acted)
6. Strain gone
7. Push 2 starts to count (note that prior to this point, a larger Push could also have been applied from another attack/source; and potentially still can until the Push is finished)
9. Push gone; can now act (cast another spell); Recovery starts to reduce.
11. Recovery gone.

As you can see, the timing of a Push can also be optimized by inflicting it after the target casts a spell or uses a manoeuvre. If they use a basic attack (to tick down strain/recovery), it can be worth using a basic attack yourself and saving the Push attack to ruin their combinations.

It is also why Quickdraw and Rapid Shot can be so useful. Being able to combine actions can minimize these negative effects. On some occasions is can be worth *not* using these talents to get the strain/recovery triggered and counting down.

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 Post subject: Re: Push - Technical question
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:38 pm 
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I am VERY sure that Push pushes EVERYTHING, including strain and recovery. As far as I have always read, Push happens first, THEN you deal with everything.

Matt?

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 Post subject: Re: Push - Technical question
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:58 pm 
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Quote:
Push
Certain actions can force a delay in a character’s actions.
This delay is known as a Push; simply advance the subject’s Clock by a number of Ticks equal to the duration of the Push. A character can only be subject to one Push effect at a time, though the longest such period will always apply.

Recovery
Martial Combat Maneuvers often have a Recovery rating. Recovery is a duration of Ticks in which the character may not make a Combat Maneuver. Once the Master Clock matches the character’s Clock, each Tick that passes reduces that character’s Recovery by 1.

Strain
Once the Master Clock matches the character’s Clock, each Tick that passes without the character casting a spell reduces that character’s Strain by 1.


PC clock and Master Clock are tested separately. Once they match, nothing can stop Recovery/Strain from draining away, regardless of Push (or even being Vanquished afterwards!)

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 Post subject: Re: Push - Technical question
PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:39 pm 
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Interesting. I've always run it as described by Cody, but if Southernskies' quotes are accurate (my books aren't handy), he could be correct. An official clarification would be great.

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 Post subject: Re: Push - Technical question
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:51 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 am
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I guess I've been doing it wrong. I'll have to check with everyone else I play with how they do it.

Using the OP I've been doing #1.
After the 2 tick Push I'm back to the 5 ticks normal with no Push. I figured that was right because I have the ability to Push myself (Counter Spell talent and Arcane Shield spell)
If #3 is correct then I can't use those abilities until all 7 ticks have been completed.

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 Post subject: Re: Push - Technical question
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:28 pm 
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You are under a Push until your Next Action clock matches the Master Clock.

For most actions, this makes #3 correct. (So, you can't use Counter Spell and then Arcane Shield; the first Push shuts you down). Another reason a battlefield control Martial is invaluable with the right timing.

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 Post subject: Re: Push - Technical question
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:57 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
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Cody is correct. Push pushes everything. (you are considered under Push until your next Tick on the clock). If you had it otherwise, if you suffered "Push 2" and adjust your clock, thern those 2 Ticks expire, you could again suffer Push (effectively keeping you locked out of a combat).

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