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Bloodline Talent Action Rolls
http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2041		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  acurrier [ Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:04 am ]
Post subject:  Bloodline Talent Action Rolls
Hello Folks,

Figured I'd toss this out there, not sure whether it should be addressed in the Errata document.

Currently bloodrank is very rarely applicable to, well, anything. There are a couple bloodline talents that do reference it (such as Cadic Guides My Hand or Anshar's Mighty Strides), but generally bloodrank doesn't matter (aside from the bonus to social skills).

There are a number of bloodline talents which require an action roll against an enemy's defences:

All Knowledge is His (val'Abebi)
His Radiant Glory (val'Assante)
Word of Illir (val'Assante)
The Fires of Heaven (val'Virdan/val'Emman)
As We Suffer, So Shall They (val'Inares)
Our Goddess' Righteous Gaze (val'Ishi)
The Crushing Waves (val'Ossan)
Redeem What is His (val'Ossan)
The Temptation of the Flesh (val'Sheem)
Touch of Pleasure (val'Sheem)
Hurrian's Wrath (val'Tensen)
The Thunder's Gift (val'Tensen)
The Tempest (val'Tensen)

I see two issues with the above talents. First, the talents in blue all require a straight attribute action roll (no bonus) against enemy defence. This is a sketchy proposition at low level, and at higher level when enemy defences get into the 25-30 range it will be rare to affect anyone without a crit or exploding attribute die. The errata document does address Redeem What is His by providing a bonus equal to bloodrank x2, but the other talents set up this way receive no such treatment.

Second, the other talents require a skill roll of some sort against defences. Especially when looking at a T5 bloodline talent, if the talent requires a skill that the character is not trained in, it is effectively worthless for the character. In my case, The Fires of Heaven requires Ranged (Marksman) or (Thrown), while the character has an in-game reason for not obtaining training in those skills.

Instead of tying these talents to a specific skill, what I'd like to propose is that all bloodline talents which require an action roll against enemy defences be resolved the same way, namely an attribute action roll with a bonus which involves bloodrank. This will actually make bloodrank matter, and make Potent Blood more useful.

I think it would be reasonable to make the bonus either bloodrank x2 (as in the errata document), or Hero Tier + bloodrank. The first option would give a modifier at T5 of 10-14, while the second would be 10-12 (both excluding Potent Blood, and depending on number of bloodline talents learned).

Just my two cents.
Author:  Dante [ Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloodline Talent Action Rolls
This idea seems reasonable from both a rules and story perspective. If Bloodline Talents are useless at higher level, then (a) in story, vals aren't that special after all and (b) in game, few players will take them. A bloodrank-based bonus helps keep the talents useful and balanced.
Author:  val Holryn [ Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloodline Talent Action Rolls
I also agree that bloodline powers that attack aren't generally useful. At best they require an investment in ranged (thrown or marksman)...problematic for Arcane and Divine builds. At worst they get no bonus and thus don't hit opponents who are Tier appropriate.

This is definitely a good point to review if there is ever a second edition of the rules. Not sure it needs errata now though. Clearly no shortage of players playing vals. Just skip the less useful talents
Author:  wilcoxon [ Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloodline Talent Action Rolls
Nice analysis. I agree that they at least need some bonus and that requiring a particular skill greatly limits their utility. I would agree that standardizing on BR x 2 seems to make the most sense. Hopefully this will be added to the errata at some point.
Author:  mighty28 [ Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloodline Talent Action Rolls
Although you all make good points, any changes to this would go well beyond both rules clarification and errata. As such, they are remaining as-is. Remember, that 1)bloodline talents may not necessarily be as potent as their spell counterparts and 2) some Talents are deliberately designed to be unequal.
Author:  wilcoxon [ Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bloodline Talent Action Rolls
Maybe I'm missing something. How would changing this go beyond errata? I don't think changing these would be any more significant than some of the other changes made in errata so far.
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