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 Post subject: Creature Traits
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:18 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 806
Location: Michigan
I am confused on when traits apply on animals, when you get animal abilities through spells/abilities.

For example... With Aspect of the beast you can get a wide range of abilities from an animal, but not it's traits. You can get a Talent, Attribute Die, or natural AR - but apparently not traits. It gives the example of a shadow lion where you can get its Stealthy Talent, its d10 Quickness die, or
its Speed: 5 (d8) claw attack. "Path of the Shadow Lion" also gives gives you its "attacks, Pace, Stealthy and Owl Eyed Talents, as well as the Shadow Lion’s Might and Quickness dice (d10)."

But with traits factored in the shadow lion has a d12 might die (due to powerful attribute) and a d8 speed 4 claw attack (due to powerful attack [claws]). So, this would seem to indicate that you don't get their modified abilities, just their base. But what is the point of getting a creature's natural armor, if you don't get it modified by the trait "natural armor," isn't that always zero? It seems like when you get a creatures stat, attack, or armor, it should be after traits are applied. Is this just a complication based on the core book coming out before the bestiary?

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 Post subject: Re: Creature Traits
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 909
The main reason is stacking. As "Trait" is an additional source it can have a big impact in some combinations.

Think of "Trait" as 'something the creature has done its whole life and is very good at'. A PC obtaining it via a spell doesn't have that lifetime of experience to get the most of the ability.

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 Post subject: Re: Creature Traits
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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I agree with toodeep. For attributes where you use the animal's in place of your own, I would expect you to get the full effect (powerful attribute, natural armor, powerful attack, etc). If the spell simply gives you some sort of augmentation (rather than the full animal attribute) then I would not expect any traits to apply.

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 Post subject: Re: Creature Traits
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:51 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 806
Location: Michigan
wilcoxon wrote:
I agree with toodeep. For attributes where you use the animal's in place of your own, I would expect you to get the full effect (powerful attribute, natural armor, powerful attack, etc). If the spell simply gives you some sort of augmentation (rather than the full animal attribute) then I would not expect any traits to apply.


Well, it is also a way to just say this thing is different than every other creature in some specific way. I mean, you generally take the base d8, d6, or whatever template in some way, and then apply traits and talents to make a bull different than a alligator, right? They might both start as a d8 creature, but then you say, "well a bull is really strong, give it the powerful attribute might, and the alligator has a really big bite, so give it powerful attack bite. It's what the creature is. You're saying that if you take the might of a bull it will be the same as taking its quickness because it's a d8 creature? One takes the might of a bull because its what it is known for, which mean the powerful attribute should be factored in. Otherwise, what you get attribute wise will be pretty much straight d8's, since that what animals get without traits, which is pretty boring.

Plus, if you don't factor in the traits, you can't ever get natural armor from a creature, because that appears to always be gained from traits.

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