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1 minor stacking question
http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2037		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  toodeep [ Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1 minor stacking question
mighty28 wrote:
A weapon damage roll utilizing (Might) is a Might roll. As such, they do NOT stack (assuming same source type).


Additional clarification then, in the spell, "Bestial Form," where it says, "Special (val’Dellenov): If you cast this spell while under the effects of The Primal Self Bloodline Talent, you gain a +2 bonus to damage and all Might and Quickness Action Skill Rolls." This is redundant, right? Since a +2 bonus to all might and quickness action skill rolls will already give the aforementioned +2 to damage. Unless it is meant to indicate (which seems odd, but could go with the wording) that you get +2 on damage other than those based on might and quickness - like spells.
Author:  Nierite [ Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1 minor stacking question
Bestial Form = Spell
Primal Self = Talent
Author:  toodeep [ Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1 minor stacking question
Nierite wrote:
Bestial Form = Spell
Primal Self = Talent


Yes, but if bestial form is cast when one is under the effect of primal self, one gets both a +2 on damage, and a +2 on might and quickness action skills rolls from the bestial form spell. Since +2 on damage is redundant to +2 on might/quickness action skill rolls (if it is a weapon), and both are from the spell, isn't that redundant? Why say +2 on damage, and then say +2 on might/action skill roles, unless the spell also gives a +2 on damage from spells cast (which seems to be what it is saying, but I find that hard to believe considering the nature of the spell) - or in case a bonus on damage were different than a bonus on might/quickness action skills roles (which campaign staff has said it isn't). Thus the request for clarification.
Author:  Southernskies [ Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1 minor stacking question
"Might Action Skill Rolls" are not the same as damage rolls. Action Rolls are 2d10+(attribute)+(skill bonus); damage rolls could be any combination specific by the action undertaken.

You can spend Fate on Action Rolls but not damage rolls.

+2 damage and +2 Might rolls (note; not Might Action Skill Rolls) may stack if different sources.


Primal Self wrote:
When in this form you gain a +2 bonus to all Vitality, Might, and Quickness rolls. Also, you gain a +2 bonus to all Perception Action Skill Rolls and a Speed: 4 natural melee attack that deals d8 (Mi) damage.

Source: Talent; Type: Static; applied to all (Vi)(Mi)(Qu) rolls of any sort.

Weapon Mastery IV wrote:
Tier IV: You deal an additional +2 bonus damage when
attacking with your mastered weapon.

Source: Talent; Type: Static; applied to damage rolls.

Bestial Form wrote:
Effect: For the remainder of the Scene you gain d6 (Mi) natural attacks (claws and bite), a Pace of 50’, Natural AR of 6, and increase all your physical attributes to d12, while decreasing your discipline defense by 1 and all of your mental attributes to d6.
Your also gain 2 of the following traits chosen at the time of casting: Crush, Monstrous Charge, Owl Eyed, Ravenous, Stealthy (Tier 1), or Wolf Pack Tactics (pg. 212).
While under the effects of this spell, all of your equipment melds into your new form (becoming unusable for the duration of this ability).
Special (val’Dellenov): If you cast this spell while under the effects of The Primal Self Bloodline Talent, you gain a +2 bonus to damage and all Might and Quickness Action Skill Rolls.

Source: Spell; Bonus: Static -- Note that the Special changes the Source of the bonus!
** d6 (d12)+2 unarmed damage is pretty good; d8 (d12)+2 with Iron Fists or d8 (d12)+4 with Unarmed Weapon Mastery IV (Talent/Static). Add +1 from Wolf Pack Tactics (Trait/Static).

For the sake of completeness:
Item Quality wrote:
Weapons: Weapons of Fine quality deal an additional point of damage. Exceptional weapons also have excellent balance, lowering the weapon’s base Speed by 1 (to a
minimum of 3) in addition to dealing 1 extra point of damage with every hit.

Source: Item; Type: Static; applied to damage rolls.

Two Talent sources, one Spell (+bonus Trait) and one Item. Apply stacking as appropriate
Author:  toodeep [ Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1 minor stacking question
Southernskies wrote:
Source: Spell; Bonus: Static -- Note that the Special changes the Source of the bonus!


Where do you see that the special changes the source, it still appears to be spell.
Author:  toodeep [ Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1 minor stacking question
Southernskies wrote:
"Might Action Skill Rolls" are not the same as damage rolls. Action Rolls are 2d10+(attribute)+(skill bonus); damage rolls could be any combination specific by the action undertaken.


facepalm. Thought I would have known that by now.
Author:  Southernskies [ Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1 minor stacking question
toodeep wrote:
Southernskies wrote:
Source: Spell; Bonus: Static -- Note that the Special changes the Source of the bonus!


Where do you see that the special changes the source, it still appears to be spell.


It changes "The Primal Self (ta)" bonus from Talent to Spell, which allows other talents to benefit.
Author:  toodeep [ Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1 minor stacking question
Southernskies wrote:
It changes "The Primal Self (ta)" bonus from Talent to Spell, which allows other talents to benefit.


I didn't take it to be changing the primal self bonus, but rather, because the spell overlapped the talent so much, to instead offer an additional bonus (because they stack). You don't lose the bonus from the talent when you cast the spell.

But other relevant talents don't stack with primal self bonus, but do with the spell bonus.
Author:  mighty28 [ Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1 minor stacking question
Correct....the source type does not change. The talent and the spell stack.
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