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 Post subject: 1 minor stacking question
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
Does a static bonus to all might roll stack with a static bonus to damage on a might based weapon? It seems like they are different, but since they both wind up applying to the same roll I wasn't sure. An example is form of the primal self giving a +2 bonus to all might rolls, and weapon spec IV giving +2 to all damage rolls. Do they stack?

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 Post subject: Re: 1 minor stacking question
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:33 pm 
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Location: Portland OR
Yes in this case because one is a spell and the other a talent. If both sources had been talents (or both spells) then the answer would be no. (The might rolls vs damage rolls (with a might based weapon) is irrelevant. They overlap and don't stack).

IIRC the sources are: talents, combat maneuvers, items, spells & runes. Away from my books. Someone please correct me if I got that list wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: 1 minor stacking question
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 4:37 pm 
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WM4 says specifically DAMAGE rolls, and Primal Self says specifically MIGHT rolls. As such, they do not add to the same thing, so they would stack. After all, WM4 can apply just as well to a Quick Weapon (like a Short Sword) and give the same bonus to either Quicknesss or Might since it is a bonus applied to the weapon.

Edit: Eric, Primal Self is a BL Talent, not a spell.

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 Post subject: Re: 1 minor stacking question
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:10 pm 
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If they're both talents I don't think they stack.

It's true that one covers a wider range of circumstances. But it's the same source granting a static bonus. They should overlap and not stack.

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Eric Gorman

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. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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 Post subject: Re: 1 minor stacking question
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:22 pm 
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I dispute that owing to the fact that while they are static bonuses, they are not being applied to the same thing. One is applying to damage rolls, and other might rolls. While Might rolls are often used in damage rolls, they are themselves not damage and therefore a different target of a static bonus.

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 Post subject: Re: 1 minor stacking question
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:06 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
Nierite wrote:
I dispute that owing to the fact that while they are static bonuses, they are not being applied to the same thing. One is applying to damage rolls, and other might rolls. While Might rolls are often used in damage rolls, they are themselves not damage and therefore a different target of a static bonus.


I tend to agreeing with this, since we know that a might die bump, and a weapon damage die bump are different things. It seems that a might static bonus should also be different than a damage static bonus, and thus stack. But I thought there was definitely room for confusion, thus asking the question.

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 Post subject: Re: 1 minor stacking question
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:53 pm 
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with respect I disagree with that.

There are different "pools" you can get bonuses from (static or otherwise) ... talents, spells yadda yadda. Bonuses from within the same source don't stack unless noted somewhere.

I get the idea that a bonus to might rolls (including might damage) and a bonus to (all) damage are different, partially overlapping circles of a potential ven diagram.

IMO I don't think that matters. I think you just get the most advantageous bonus within the source (in this case talents).

By the logic of the "its different" argument one could also advance an argument that that a talent which gave a bonus to any roll involving a sword could also stack with the above. Or a talent that gave a gnome a bonus to when using his or her left hand ... they are different things. (might rolls, damage rolls, using a sword for something rolls, left handed gnome rolls...) I am admittedly being a little tongue in cheek here, but even if you don't agree with me I think you see where I'm going. Different bonuses within a source gets messy & complicated & and maybe invites cheese weaseling. And leads to debates on what really counts as different.

The most advantageous bonus within a pool is clear and easy to administer.

In the early days of the news rules system, on the old dead boards that crashed, there was an argument about combining Smite Infidel (bonus die based on Charisma) with some other talent that also gave a bonus die to damage off of a different stat. The argument split the community fairly evenly...and Pedro even initially posted that because they were different stats the bonuses were "different" and would then stack. But everyone eventually backtracked from that position when we took a harder look at what it would be like to potentially have 8 stacking bonus dice per "source" ... a nightmare. Now its just your biggest bonus dice.

I don't think your arguments are crazy, but I'm also not following that interpretation at tables I judge. I am fine with other judges going the other way. If its a big issue for some builds it would be nice if the campaign staff wants to weigh in.

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AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


Last edited by val Holryn on Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 1 minor stacking question
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:08 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
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Location: Fort Wayne, IN
A weapon damage roll utilizing (Might) is a Might roll. As such, they do NOT stack (assuming same source type).

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 Post subject: Re: 1 minor stacking question
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:34 am 

Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:01 am
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Real life logic: A strong man works better with a sharper weapon so they should stack as affecting different things.


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 Post subject: Re: 1 minor stacking question
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:44 am 
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mininin wrote:
Real life logic: A strong man works better with a sharper weapon so they should stack as affecting different things.


Yes, they would stack. The (fine/exceptional) weapon is from a different stacking "pool."

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. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


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