A very quick and simple question, what is the range on Shared Sacrifice's Sacrifice adaptation?

Also to note, since Eye for an Eye is an "advance" spell, why isn't Shared Sacrifice an advance spell?

P.S. It is on page 160 in Codex of Heroes.

I took a bath before posting. So, it can't be the smell. Maybe it is the confusion.

I may have a hung jury. Probably need clarification on how the Sacrifice Adaption works.

The way I read "Shared Sacrifice"'s Sacrifice Adaptation, my character may choose to Push his clock 5 with 2 strain in response to a creature being killed, example Ally V. Ally V is killed by an attack. I cast Shared Sacrifice with Sacfrice Adaptation, spending 1 Fate Point targetting Ally V who's stamina and HP have now become 0. Ally V becomes the center of the 10 foot radius wave of pain that deals Ally V's max stamina as damage to everyone inside the 10 foot radius, except the caster, bypassing AR. Oh, and I have to make a single attack check against all of their fortitude scores. So there may be some survivors, but the ones that loose the fort defense will surely take a wound and some serious damage.

Am I doing this right? Is there are range of how far the killed creature is from the caster? Ally V could be anyone from the unlucky member of my party or an unlucky common in the middle of the enemy's formation?

Do you guys think I am making up this spell? Hmm.... what spells could I augment with it?

Hey, read your question and looked at the spell. I agree with you that the range for the spell is unclear when using the adaptation and should be specified. Lacking that as a GM the most common ranges for spells are 30 and 60'. I'd likely go with 60' given how limited the use of the adaptation will be.

As a reminder, vanquished by stamina does not equal killed. Even vanquished by wounds doesn't guarantee death, though in most cases it's assumed they will die. Given how powerful that adaptation is and that it requires no CTN, Speed or Strain increase I would give a foe vanquished by wounds a standard avoid death due to wounds check.

Death requires an explicit "I kill them" when they are already vanquished, spell effects such as Strength of Fallen Foes and Murderous Precision which grants the option saying "instantly vanquish or slay." In the case of Murderous Precision, the GM should clarify if the intent is vanquish or slay. If slay, then it would apply.

One other note I would add - because there is no range specified with the adaptation I would not allow it to be combined into an advanced spell with a range greater than what's specified in the base spell (Self, 10' radius). That adaptation is already borderline broken without making it an advanced spell. Especially with that consideration, I'd be more inclined to change the spell from Basic to Advanced.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

The spell is a 10' AoE centered on you....both in its original form and with the Sacrifice Adaptation. the intent of the Sacrifice Adaptation is that YOU kill/sacrifice someone and cast this spell (Push action) to use the pain of the creatures's death to harm those near you. Otherwise, you could say "i see X NPC die on a ridge of a valley 1 mile away...I cast Shared Sacrifice and everyone within 10' of him takes damage". That is not a sacrificial offering. generally, it should be a melee attack/spell by you that kills the sacrifice.

???

I thought you couldn't take a push actions when your tick comes up and you're in the middle of a "regular" action. Am I wrong? Or is this an exception?

Presumably if the ability specifically says you can do it, you can do it.

Thanks for the clarification, Matt. Good to know.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

That at least puts a better leash, but only saying "in conjunction" never automatically insists that your character is the one supplying the "killed" condition. Although searching through the rest of the books, the writer talks about a die rolling in conjunction with another die, and the other spells that occur "in conjunction" are clear in the speed cost and and what actions they append upon.

Looking at the other spells that are used in conjunction; Bittersweet Kiss, Excellence in Action, Far Strike, Ghost Step, Quicken Step, and Smite Heretic; they do have some clarity that the spell is added onto the character's action.

The Sacrifice adaptation doesn't change the speed from Push 5 (+2) to +5(+2). So really, the character can't make this action at the same time as an action to kill a creature. The spell reads like an AoO against "just killed now" creature, expelling the pain of death to all those around her. The only way this spell works is if the creature is killed by someone else.

But in keeping the idea that caster can push after killing a creature, which would be very easy to accomplish at both melee and range, is it the killed target or the caster that has the radius? Commonly with 10' radius spells, the caster is not affected anyway.

This spell needs to be in the next errata, and will appear to be up to the GM's decision on clarification. With certain NPCs having this spell and a fate pool, a GM can choose to use it at range when the PCs kill a mob and blast everything in 10 feet with 35, 50, 65 damage, bypassing AR, which will cause wounds. Controversial spell that can result in TPKs.

In better response to Flinn's interpretation, the mechanics of an ability are not required to be sound.