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| Do spells with range like 10' Radius provoke? https://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1915 |
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| Author: | wilcoxon [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Do spells with range like 10' Radius provoke? |
I thought I'd start a new thread looking for an official answer on this as it is pretty critical. Do spells with ranges like "10' Radius" provoke free strikes? Some people (including me) think no because it is no different than "0' (10' Radius)" or "Self (10' Radius)". Others think it does because it is missing the 0' or Self descriptor. What is the official ruling? If it does provoke then all spells with such ranges need to have the radius expanded or else the spell is useless because the mage will be dead before the spell goes off. |
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| Author: | Nierite [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do spells with range like 10' Radius provoke? |
To clarify: According to rules, only spells with range 0', Self, or Melee do not provoke Free Strikes when cast in melee. Spells like Channeling and Rebuke have a range of 10' Radius, with no mention of 0', Self, or Melee which implies that they DO provoke. The ranges of these spells is so small that it means that you effectively have to provoke in order to cast them, reducing their utility. Should the ranges of these be 0' (10' Radius) instead of 10' Radius? |
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| Author: | val Holryn [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do spells with range like 10' Radius provoke? |
I think they're really self (10') |
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| Author: | wilcoxon [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do spells with range like 10' Radius provoke? |
I agree with Eric. |
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| Author: | SamhainIA [ Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do spells with range like 10' Radius provoke? |
well bring it up at the next go round on rules edits, as it stand the Rules as written mix things that are written that exact same way that should incur a free strike (in my opinion since we are expressing opinions) |
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| Author: | wilcoxon [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do spells with range like 10' Radius provoke? |
SamhainIA wrote: well bring it up at the next go round on rules edits, as it stand the Rules as written mix things that are written that exact same way that should incur a free strike (in my opinion since we are expressing opinions) What things with ranges like that do you think should incur free strikes? In my opinion: Spells:
The spells that I note as "unclear adaptation range" start with a range such as 30' (1 Target) but have an adaptation that has a range stated something like "all Targets within 10' Radius". I assume the original range applies and it is just changing the "target" portion (eg 30' (10' Radius)) but it is not explicit (unless I'm missing a general rule somewhere). If I'm correct on the range, then they clearly do provoke. While searching for these, I noticed that Ward of Protection has an adaptation that needs errata. The spell starts as 10' Radius and the adaptation says it becomes 10' Radius. I'm assuming it should be "increase the radius by 10'". Talents:
Since there is absolutely nothing I can find that I think should provoke (just some "maybe" spells) and there are lots of things that I strongly feel should not provoke, I would definitely like to see errata saying that all things given range of "X' Radius" are really "Self (X' Radius)" (or "0' (X' Radius)"). |
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| Author: | SamhainIA [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do spells with range like 10' Radius provoke? |
yeah, any thing on your list(s) that counts as an attack is on my list of things that provoke |
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| Author: | wilcoxon [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do spells with range like 10' Radius provoke? |
SamhainIA wrote: yeah, any thing on your list(s) that counts as an attack is on my list of things that provoke Seriously? An attack spell that provokes every time (or almost every time) you cast it is completely useless. The only way that would be balanced is if these attack spells were more powerful to make up for provoking and being very short range (but they aren't). Exactly why do you think these should provoke but all of the spells with Self (X' Radius) or 0' (X' Radius) should not? I don't understand your reasoning at all. If attack spells were meant to provoke when used then there wouldn't be an exception given in the book for point blank spells. Until this is officially clarified, I'll probably just avoid these spells as I would likely get irritated if a GM tried telling me they provoke when cast as I don't see any possible logical argument for them doing so (just the nitpicking that 0' or Self were left off the range entry (when we all know there's plenty of similar small errata in the books) - these are no different than any other non-range aoe spell/ability). |
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| Author: | SamhainIA [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do spells with range like 10' Radius provoke? |
holy cow man, you are acting like incurring a free strike is the end of the world. bottom line is they aren't, they don't even affect the results of your spell casting. The bottom line for me is that any spell that is an attack spell (and honestly most spells that are ranged buffs or misc spells) that operates at range should probably incur a free strike. and keep in mind that this isn't just spells but any ranged attack |
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| Author: | Haakon_val'Ishi [ Fri Jul 10, 2015 5:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Do spells with range like 10' Radius provoke? |
Just to be clear and to make sure I understand things, I always thought that if you did a ranged attack or cast pretty much any spell within melee range of an active opponent (with a melee weapon in hand) he had a shot at you. Now I'm at work and don't have the rules in front of me. If I cast and he hits me what is the effect? |
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