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 Post subject: sorcerer vs. sorcerer priest in paths
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:16 pm 

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I was looking at the Magi path (pg 288) and was surprised that it required Arcane Spell Casting: Elder (ta) or Arcane Spell Casting: Eldritch (ta), with no option for Arcane Spell Casting: Sorcerer Priest (ta) as well, since they also use eldritch magic. I assumed this was intentional.

Then I read the Elementalist Path (pg 281), and it said, "Requirements: Arcane Spell Casting: (Eldritch), (Elder), or (Primal) (ta), Adaptation: Elemental Empowerment (ta), and must have chosen Elemental as a Primary Tradition" Again, it excluded sarishan sorcerer priests, despite the fact that they have the elemental tradition as well.

Are sorcerer priests getting lumped into the (eldritch) category in these paths because they're "eldritch casters?" Are they being intentionally excluded? Or is this just an oversight?

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 Post subject: Re: sorcerer vs. sorcerer priest in paths
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:21 pm 
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My understanding of Sarishan priests implies that this is probably an intentional oversight. While they may know Elemental magic, that particular aspect is not one of Sarish's portfolios.

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 Post subject: Re: sorcerer vs. sorcerer priest in paths
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:41 pm 
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Though Sorcerer-Priests use "eldritch" magic there are a lot of major caveats that go with that. ONE is that they are learning through the auspices of the Church and not independently or through the traditions of the Sanctorum. The Mother Church, and presumably the MOC, both look at elementalism as heretical/pagan...so it makes a lot of sense that the Elementalist Path is off limits to a SP.

I don't really know why Magi would be off limits to a SP...except that the Temple of Sarish teaches other routes to arcane mastery such as Binder & Sorcerer Priest that are only open to SPs.

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 Post subject: Re: sorcerer vs. sorcerer priest in paths
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
val Holryn wrote:
Though Sorcerer-Priests use "eldritch" magic there are a lot of major caveats that go with that. ONE is that they are learning through the auspices of the Church and not independently or through the traditions of the Sanctorum. The Mother Church, and presumably the MOC, both look at elementalism as heretical/pagan...so it makes a lot of sense that the Elementalist Path is off limits to a SP.

I don't really know why Magi would be off limits to a SP...except that the Temple of Sarish teaches other routes to arcane mastery such as Binder & Sorcerer Priest that are only open to SPs.


Ya, but I'm looking for a more scholarly feel for my sorcerer priest. He became a sorcerer priest because there was so much to learn about magic. He's taking all three ranks of scholar, and I'm considering what else he might tend towards. Magi seemed more appropriate than demon binder, so that is what lead me to the issue in the first place.

As for the elementalism, if it really takes an almost worshipful issue to be an elementalist, which would make sense for primal and elorii approaches to elemental magic, that would make sense. But since eldritch doesn't have any of that frippery (of worship) it is clear you can be an elementalist without it (even though that lack of a need to worship is why the church considers it heretical). It seems like a sorcerer priest could by a pyromaniac too, but I agree that it seems like it would be much less likely than most the other traditions that get elementalism.

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 Post subject: Re: sorcerer vs. sorcerer priest in paths
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:05 pm 
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toodeep wrote:
Are sorcerer priests getting lumped into the (eldritch) category in these paths because they're "eldritch casters?" Are they being intentionally excluded? Or is this just an oversight?

I noticed this as well, and in this situation I presume it was an intentional omission.

Sorcerer-Priests are weird insofar as being both Eldritch and Divine, and as a result it seems sometimes difficult to discern which rules and options do and don't apply to S-Ps. (I've posted some questions about this myself.) In the case of these Paths, I interpret the spirit of the law to be that these paths apply only to casters with "The Gift" of magic, which excludes Sorcerer-Priests.

I admit that it's open to debate, and perhaps Henry or Pedro could give the most concrete answers as to intentions. For a home game, you could do whatever the GM wants, but I don't think a S-P should be able to take those Paths in the Legends of Arcanis campaign unless campaign staff explicitly says so.

(Interesting character concept, BTW.)

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 Post subject: Re: sorcerer vs. sorcerer priest in paths
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:50 am 

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Looking at the rules and description of the Sorcerer-Priest of Sarish, and information provided about the few we have met. It appears the intent was they are Priests. They are trained by the church, they use holy symbols, when you enter a church of Sarish they will be the individuals attending it. Dwarves are only allowed access to Divine magic, but when they are Encali they get Sorcerer-Priest of Sarish instead. The Blood Tradition is filled with a mixture of Deity, Benediction, and Corpus tradition spells and it must be selected with every Tier you take. Their difference stems for the fact that worshiping the God of Magic has the benefit of not being as rigid when it comes to adapting the magic they use. As we all know Arcane Sources have much more flexibility then Divine. Right now Arcane get 18 Adaptation Talents while Divine gets 8 Adaptation Talents.
So mechanically they were made Arcane rather than Divine. Even then because they are excluded from much of the "true" Arcane Paths they are again given access to things like no one else. Best example is the S-PoS can select from Arcanum and Devout Talents, and they can use special holy symbols and wands.

All their Path progressions take them down the Church. Templars, Holy Champions, and Specialized Priests. Your character concept is fantastic and really fits the world. If you are a traveling scholar-priest seeking out magic around the world, the church would approve of your mission because anything your learn would strengthen the Church of Sarish. And instead of taking Magi (which doesn't make sense), you would be granted higher ranking in the Church like through Anointed Priest, or Sorcerer-Priest of Sarish, which are more general then Sarishian Binder.

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 Post subject: Re: sorcerer vs. sorcerer priest in paths
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:47 pm 

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Yes, becoming an annointed priest can, of course, work. He's a human (Myrantian) in the church, so he really feels that despite his obvious intelligence he will be closed of from the upper enchelons of power - since all the elite are val, and usually val'mehan. He's an initiate of the gods who has really set out on his own after receiving the teachings he needed, and believes if anyone knows the way to true personal power it is Sarish and his teachings. So, while he is a devout Sarishan, he views himself more as an outside "trouble-finder/solver" and arcanist extraordinaire, rather than part of their political backstabbing double-talking church. I could see him eventually being annointed - as an acknowledgement of his abilities and in hopes of being allowed further into whatever secrets they may hold, but honestly he's more likely to go "order of the inner demon" to learn how to channel demonic power like that to his personal will, except that requires Templar, which is a little too militant for his taste. We'll see. He won't be taking anything but scholar until tier III, and so by then many other interesting options may have opened up, or character development driven him in unexpected directions.

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 Post subject: Re: sorcerer vs. sorcerer priest in paths
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:20 pm 
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Your inclinations seem to suggest Altharen to me, so one option you may wish to angle towards would be a member of the Orthodoxy and go for Keepers of Forgotten Lore (Ta). This would fit your desire to learn secret knowledge almost to a T.

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