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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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1) Given that, per the rules, it's pretty easy to craft a wand or runestaff, why can't people make them for personal use? If you don't want a player-driven economy, just disallow trading/selling them (as a lot of certed items are restricted) - then it's no different from purchasing any other item.

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:29 pm 
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I agree with Steve. Given that there is no market to buy and sell wands, the rules for crafting a wand for self-use would not be any sort of crafting economy but just a way to use established rules for creating items for personal use. Since Forged in Magic does not mention any sort of sales price for buying wands or rune-staffs, I had inferred that the only way to get one was to craft it (though a couple mods have wands available).

An alternative to ruling that the only way to get a wand or rune-staff is by obtaining one from a fallen foe is to rule that the only way to obtain one is for the spellcaster to craft it for himself.

If you are going to rule that those wand and rune-staff rules in Forged in Magic are not allowed, I encourage campaign staff to read through the Blessed Lands rules before they go public so that all players & GMs right away know whether anything in the published book is not allowed. Based on experience in the Living Arcanis campaign, an important concept for the new Arcanis rules was that the shared campaign rules and the game rules were as close to 100% the same as possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
I agree with the previous comments. I thought it was spelled out in the book how one would craft a wand or a spellstaff for reason. Especially considering the scenerio previously mentioned if one were to try to purchase one, crafting one for oneself seems simple and obvious. Though I could then see putting limits on how one crafts a 50 gp value exceptional one (really, are you really that good at crafting?) compared to a run of the mill stick.

I also think availability needs to be put into the campaign document quickly. I just recently learned that the permanent and amalgamated runes are supposedly not currently allowed in the campaign. There is nothing in the book, the faq, or the campaign document indicating that. So when I was told we could buy runes in the first city, I never questioned that there might be some types of runes that we weren't allowed to purchase. I've even heard players argue that if its not in one of those three things, its not ruled one yet (they refuse to monitor the boards).

So, are permanent and amalgamated runes restricted, and if so, why?

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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toodeep wrote:
So, are permanent and amalgamated runes restricted, and if so, why?


Yes, they are restricted. I have no idea why (other than the campaign staff (or was it Henry?) said so).

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
wilcoxon wrote:
toodeep wrote:
So, are permanent and amalgamated runes restricted, and if so, why?


Yes, they are restricted. I have no idea why (other than the campaign staff (or was it Henry?) said so).


The only posts I've seen saying that are from Cody from before he was campaign staff (I think). I haven't been able to find a post flat out saying it as a new rule, just posts indicating it is restricted as if we are supposed to know it already for some reason. So it still seems a little vague to me, as is demonstrated by your post that someone, though not sure who, said so. - though I assume that will be ended shortly.

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:46 pm 
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It may be a version control issue on the campaign docs. The current versions have bits and pieces missing from old versions (this may be one of them).

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:48 am 
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The rules I had related to why Amalgamated and Permanent Runes are not available for purchase predates my status in the Campaign, but generally came from Tony. The rationale (and even the restriction) may change as per Matt, but here is what the reason was when I last heard it:

1) According to the text on Amalgamated Runes (FiM2, pg 4), the knowledge to make these is "known only by a select few." Whenever rarity of knowledge shows up, it means these things tend to become restricted. After all, if only say. . . 100 Runesmiths in all of the Known Lands know how to scribe these, then simply picking one up as one would a length of rope makes no sense. This rarity typically means it becomes a campaign event for them to become available, such as "You are a Hero of Solanos Mor, and in thanks for your efforts they have given you access to XXX" type events. Alternatively, you can find the big-mojo items with Amalgamated Runes as unique Loot in a mod.

2) Permanent Runes, while not exactly listed as Rare in the book (FiM2, pg 5) are also not necessarily well known at this point. In fact, it was by accident that a Solani apprentice 'rediscovered' the knowledge (presumably it was more commonly known during the ancient Empires). Because of this, it is easier to simply put the same restictions on them as Amalgamated Runes, reflecting the limited distribution of the knowledge.

These rationales may change as per Henry and Matt, but until then I think it makes sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:42 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
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I think everyone agrees that an update to the campaign documentation is needed and as Matt has said is already in the works. In terms of the runes, I'm really curious how people are buying them.

For the amalgamated and permanent runes we don't have pricing. While I can see an argument for a permanent rune being the same price as a standard rune as the lack of ability to transfer offsets the increased benefit, that's not a safe assumption. Also, there's no pricing available for amalgamated. You're combining 2 different runes into a single rune / slot. Logically speaking that should be more expensive than each rune individually. If people are buying them I'm curious what price they're paying and what they're using to justify the price.

At a guess, I would put pricing at a minimum at cost of each individual rune + an additional rune of the highest tier combined. I could see a premium on top of that given the rarity, but don't have a basis for estimating it.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:11 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
Hat wrote:
I think everyone agrees that an update to the campaign documentation is needed and as Matt has said is already in the works. In terms of the runes, I'm really curious how people are buying them.

For the amalgamated and permanent runes we don't have pricing. While I can see an argument for a permanent rune being the same price as a standard rune as the lack of ability to transfer offsets the increased benefit, that's not a safe assumption. Also, there's no pricing available for amalgamated. You're combining 2 different runes into a single rune / slot. Logically speaking that should be more expensive than each rune individually. If people are buying them I'm curious what price they're paying and what they're using to justify the price.

At a guess, I would put pricing at a minimum at cost of each individual rune + an additional rune of the highest tier combined. I could see a premium on top of that given the rarity, but don't have a basis for estimating it.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


I have not purchased any, though I had planned on it before I thought to check here about restrictions. I thought from the text that a permanent rune cost the same as a normal rune, and you got the additional power at the cost of less mobility. I also thought an Amalgamated rune would just cost the expense of both runes, which is evened out by the fact that you can only ever have one of those runes activated at a time.

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:15 pm 
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The biggest issue with purchasing runes staves (or amalgamated/permanent runes) as I see it, is that the stuff is supposed to be "special." Not every spell caster or adventurer runs around with such things...mostly because Arcanis is a lower magic level world. We have regular access to runes which is more than we had in tier 1. I expect PCs will continue to increase their access to nifty items as the campaign progresses.

I too would like for Tukufu to have a rune staff (psions don't use wands ...) but I understand why the campaign might not want every PC caster to have one.

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