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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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Where does it actually say that Divine require a holy symbol? I just rechecked every entry for DSC and Theurgy in the main rulebook and don't see anything about requiring a holy symbol. Certain spells specifically state that it requires a holy symbol. To use the Personal Remnant talent to cast, you must utilize your holy symbol but that's the only wide-ranging case I can find.

Per the entry for rune staff, either both divine and psionic should be able to use it or neither. It simply limits it by Arcanum skill (not by ASC/DSC or tradition).

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:08 pm 
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Theurgy spells require no material components (unless specifically mentioned such as with the spells from Sorcerous Pacts), but all non-Psionic spell casting requires somatic components. This means a free hand.

There are two types of Holy Symbol/Wand's kicking around in the campaign for Divine's that I know of: The Saluwean Branch Wand from one of the Pricklespur mods, and a special Holy Symbol found in an ancient Ssethric temple of Kassegore in a limited event at Origins in 2013.

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
wilcoxon wrote:
Where does it actually say that Divine require a holy symbol? I just rechecked every entry for DSC and Theurgy in the main rulebook and don't see anything about requiring a holy symbol. Certain spells specifically state that it requires a holy symbol. To use the Personal Remnant talent to cast, you must utilize your holy symbol but that's the only wide-ranging case I can find.

Per the entry for rune staff, either both divine and psionic should be able to use it or neither. It simply limits it by Arcanum skill (not by ASC/DSC or tradition).


Poor wording on my part. The spells don't require a holy symbol, but that is what a caster of cants needs to put runes on to bolster your spells like most arcane casters can use a wand.

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:47 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
Nierite wrote:
Unless it is from PCI or Tony or Joe, then it is not official.


True, but since there doesn't appear to be anything official saying that we can't buy them, we seem to be at an impasse. And since there are rules for purchase in the books, I sort of default to assuming purchase is allowed until there is official word that we can't.

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:05 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:08 am
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Hello,

toodeep wrote:
I sort of default to assuming purchase is allowed until there is official word that we can't.


I'll bring this up at the next Staff meeting, but as a general rule, one should ALWAYS default on the side of NOT being able to do something rather than assume permission to do so.

So, just to forestall any issues at tables, until further notice, Rune Staffs are NOT purchasable by players.

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:11 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
wilcoxon wrote:
Per the entry for rune staff, either both divine and psionic should be able to use it or neither. It simply limits it by Arcanum skill (not by ASC/DSC or tradition).


Seems reasonably to me. I had thought divine needed a holy symbol to use like a wand, but you're right that it seems a rune staff should work as well.

Another question is what kind of rune could help character's "casting" using bloodline talents like "hands of the mother" since it is casting, but not specified as a tradition. (so right now I would assume none)

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:12 pm 
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toodeep wrote:
Another question is what kind of rune could help character's "casting" using bloodline talents like "hands of the mother" since it is casting, but not specified as a tradition. (so right now I would assume none)


Not using the Arcanum skill to cast, so no effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:38 am 
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Who can use wands and rune staffs? At first reading, I had thought the answer was simply stated in Forged in Magic vol.I (2011), but on further consideration, it's not quite so clear.

FiM v.I says (p.13): "Not all practitioners of magic make use of wands; only those who practice elder, eldritch, or primal magic make use of such items." I infer that Sarishan sorcerer-priests may as well because they conform to most rules for eldritch magic.

Questions:

[1] Can a rune (e.g., Sorcery) placed on a wand be used with an arcanum other than elder, eldritch, or primal? On one hand, only practitioners of those three sources can wield wands. On the other hand, the rune itself doesn't mention any limit. This matters specifically for Psionics (except for the rare Pantheonistic Priest who casts as a Sorcerer-Priest and standard Theurgy Cants). For example, could an eldritch caster who is also psionic put a Sorcery (Psionics) rune on a wand to gain its wand benefit for psionic spells? Can a primal caster who is also psionic use an Avalanche rune on a wand to cause extra damage with a psionic spell?

[2] There are some blessed runes (e.g., Illiir, Larissa, Yarris) that are useful on wands only when casting a Deity spell or using Arcanum (Cants). Since casters of Divine Cants cannot normally use a wand, the only circumstance I can see wherein someone can cast both Divine Cants and use a wand is the rare situation of a Pantheonistic Priest who worships Sarish and one of the other deities. Or maybe it's usable only on a rune staff (see below). What is the intention with those blessed runes?

[3] Rune staffs are presented in FiM vol.II, pp.20+. On one hand, the facts that (1) "Anyone trained in Arcanum may craft a basic, common Rune Staff" and (2) no limitation is given on what casters can bond to a staff may imply that anyone trained in Arcanum can use a Rune Staff. On the other hand, since a rune staff "provides the full normal wand benefit," one may infer that only someone who can use a wand can use the wand aspect of a rune staff (but other casters could still use the weapon benefits). Who can use a rune staff as a wand? (This question has already been brought up but not answered in this forum thread.)

[4] Did campaign staff ever decide whether players are allowed to buy/craft basic rune staffs as per the rules in FiM v.II? The answer should go in an update of the campaign guide, please.

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Last edited by Dante on Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:28 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
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Location: Fort Wayne, IN
I just wanted everyone to know we are aware of this thread. I am contemplating answers, but do not want to respond until I have thought things out.

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:41 am
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Location: Fort Wayne, IN
I hope I answer al thequestions brought up here. If I miss something, please let me know...

1)Can wands and /or runestaffs be crafted? A: not in the LoA campaign. Players spoke out vehemenently against an in-game economy (which would include crafting).

2) Can wands/runestaffs be generally purchased? A: No. There are no "Ye Olde Magic Shops" in Arcanis. Runecrafters make runes, not magical items (whiuch is what wands and runestaffs really are).

(Could you just imagine someone asking a merchant...maybe via black market...."you got any runestaffs?" "Sure, my friend! But that stuff is pricey, we keep it downstairs for security"....purchaser goes to basement...."Hey! What are all these guys with long arms?" "Why can't I move?" "What do you mean you hope I don't get seasick?")

All that being said, wands and runestaffs will be deseminated as mod rewards when appropriate to the story.

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