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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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val Holryn wrote:
The biggest issue with purchasing runes staves (or amalgamated/permanent runes) as I see it, is that the stuff is supposed to be "special."


I can potentially understand that reasoning for amalgamated/permanent runes but, per the rules, rune staves (and wands) seem like they should be fairly common.

toodeep wrote:
I thought from the text that a permanent rune cost the same as a normal rune, and you got the additional power at the cost of less mobility. I also thought an Amalgamated rune would just cost the expense of both runes, which is evened out by the fact that you can only ever have one of those runes activated at a time.


That was my reading as well for prices.

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:29 pm 
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I am not sure why you guys think Runestaves are common. My read of FiM2 (pg 20) suggests to me that they are something special as it requires bonding to the item. This is not just a Quarterstaff with runes on it, there are rituals required to make this thing work.

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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Nierite wrote:
I am not sure why you guys think Runestaves are common. My read of FiM2 (pg 20) suggests to me that they are something special as it requires bonding to the item. This is not just a Quarterstaff with runes on it, there are rituals required to make this thing work.


Because crafting a good quality rune staff requires 2Gc of materials and meditating over them for a week provided the crafter has even 1 rank in Arcanum (no crafting roll necessary for Good quality - Exceptional and Legendary do require rolling). And bonding to a rune staff only requires meditating for one day (no materials or roll required). Given this, I think common good quality rune staves are very common among casters (who can afford 2Gc at least) - better quality or greater rune staves would be pretty rare (if for no other reason than they are hideously expensive (100Gc for Exceptional quality)).

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:53 pm 
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Maybe slap a Tier requirement on them (like other magic items).
Good = T.2
Exceptional = T.4
Legendary = T.5

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:49 pm 
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...I think we've seen exactly 1 NPC with a rune staff so far. Maybe 2 if you count the Sanctorum guy who talks to Felix in the mod Relevance.

Despite what it says in FiM2 I don't think many casters (PC or NPC) have them in the living campaign.

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:55 pm 

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Southernskies wrote:
Maybe slap a Tier requirement on them (like other magic items).
Good = T.2
Exceptional = T.4
Legendary = T.5


It doesn't seem like that is necessary since their power comes from runes (which are already tiered). You could have an Exceptional rune staff at tier 1 but you wouldn't get full use of it until at least tier 2 or 3 (depending on which Exceptional rune you wanted).

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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:17 am 
val Holryn wrote:
The biggest issue with purchasing runes staves (or amalgamated/permanent runes) as I see it, is that the stuff is supposed to be "special."


Naturally I see it the other way: if it's not restricted in a specific way, it's for sale. At 2gc. That ain't chump change.

I don't see the heroes as being essentially generic schmucks who happen to spend their lives blundering through the right places at the right times. They're bigger than life actors. They're the fools the gods set in motion to see their great works done; they're the nail that costs the kingdom. If someone wants to grub around for the cheapest cobbler to repair their hiking boots that's fine; when they decide I'm not doing it right because I'd rather spend the extra silver piece and move on that's a call worth airing out.

Those staves might be analogous to high-end firearms and body armor in the real world: only regularly sought and paid for by a very small number of very dedicated, very serious specialists. Dilettantes with more cash than brains might get one to wave around at parties, but the folks who live and die by their Arcanum checks make damn sure everything is locked down before they hit the road every day. It's what they do because that's who they are, and that kind of person is who cares a great deal about getting a Rune Staff in much the same way a newly promoted priest might be shopping for an especially upscale mistress to mark his ascension.

By comparison take the assumption for why Legendary Blades never had anything "you" wanted to buy for sale in the last campaign. Because somebody else with 200,000 gold to blow on something as nearly useless as an enchanted legendary weapon was always in line in front of you and they wanted it to give to their son before he walked his brand new legion off a cliff.

Preposterous. :roll:

Somewhere there's a Gnome living by the Corvus where it empties into the Gulf of Coryan and he's got hundreds of unique relics, artifacts, and "mere" epic enchanted items that idiot Patricians kept sweeping off the shelves for trophies testifying to their personal importance and he uses them to anchor his fishing nets because what use is a Greater Thundering Sarishan Steel/Viridite Kukri to a normal person?

Anyway. Point being I get grumpy avoid vague "availability" meta-gaming because it's so up to individual taste in what's "realistic" in a setting where "realistically" the #1 reason to play an Elorii would be because they might get +4 to their Fortitude defense when rolling to see if they contract Cholera whenever a mod is set in Grand Coryan.

I see it as pretty simple: Heroes tend to be willing to spend quite a bit of ready cash for something basically useless to the other 99.99% of a population. They'll make the effort to find the people who can get them what they want. If it has a recognized price, is generally legal, and lacks some specific restriction inherent to the thing's nature it's a commodity -and should just be frickin' bought like any other overpriced, super-specialized piece of equipment that meets those qualifications.

Ya'll should go shopping for a Plate Carrier some time. Or a floating barrel upper. Seriously. "Not available at Walmart" does not equal "only the Vistani know where you can buy one."


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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:03 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1306
The availability of any gear is always campaign specific, typically based on but not limited to what's in the rules. A home campaign can do what it likes and the living game will,set the tone that it wants. Rune availability in LA is defined in the mods and the campaign guide. What has been expressed is that permanent and amalgamated runes are not available for general purchase. No pricing guidelines have been provided for them which is an additional indication they're not available.

Perhaps we'll have clearer guidelines once an updated version of the campaign document comes out.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:14 pm 
I'm all for decisions made in cold-blooded, rational balance. Let's have those from horizon to horizon, and frame it just as such.


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 Post subject: Re: Rune Staffs in LoA
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
Posts: 1958
Location: Portland OR
zac's post hits the nail on the head at least as far what the right question is: "Are basic rune staves the equivalent of an heirloom or "high end" weapons and armor?"

He lays out an argument for yes...and I think he has some decent points. (The fact a coin value was put on them and that FiM2 says any arcanist knows how to make one are also points in this view points favor).

On the other hand it's possible, that it's undesirable for everyone to have one. Which is what a strict interpretation of FiM2 would lead to. Made Annoited Priest? You can afford and have a rune staff. Is this what the campaign wants?

Henry and module writers have said no. Rune staves are rare, are essentially magic items, and as such cannot be bought. NPCs (and PCs) do not commonly build them. In essence FiM2 is wrong...

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