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Gladius Weapon Tricks (or lack thereof).
http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1847		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Southernskies [ Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Gladius Weapon Tricks (or lack thereof).
Finally about to reach T.II and spending my 1.10 advancements. Looking to finalise betwen LFSI: Provocateur Primus or something else.

There has been some discussion before on the old forums. Digging into the weapon tricks available to the Gladius, there really is a lack of them compared to the other swords.

Gladius gets three tiers of weapon trick (all the others, except scimitar get four)... and those three tricks are *all* it gets. There is nothing to gain by taking Adapt Weapon Trick (ta); the only way to broaden the base is Grand Master (pa) or the restricted list of the Fighting Styles (which has some internal clarity problems).

Its two contemporaries, the Broadsword and the Kio Sword both get Mighty Swing (Broadsword for being slightly heavier, Kio Sword for unknown reasons but does have the Quick quality, same as Gladius).

Suggestion:
Gladius be added to the weapon list for: Bypass the Shield, Mighty Swing and Pommel Strike. (Slashing Disarm is in the ballpark as well).
Tier IV trick: Mighty Swing.

This makes my decision to follow the Fighting Style tiers easier, as I won't need Grand Master to get Mighty Swing.
Author:  Harliquinn [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gladius Weapon Tricks (or lack thereof).
In general weapons get 1 Weapon Trick / Tier maximum. Weapons have between 2 and 5 Tricks, but never more than 1 / Tier.

Here is a breakdown:
# of Weapons getting 2 Tricks: 11
# of Weapons getting 3 Tricks: 13
# of Weapons getting 4 Tricks: 21
# of Weapons getting 5 Tricks: 6

Currently Gladius has:
Tier 1: Throw the Blade
Tier 2: Hamstring
Tier 3: Rapid Strike

In order for it to have more tricks, they could be added to Tier 4 and Tier 5, but the Gladius can't just be 'added to' the Weapon Tricks you've mentioned without taking up the Tier 4 and Tier 5 'slots'.

Hope this helps.

John
Author:  wilcoxon [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gladius Weapon Tricks (or lack thereof).
A Gladius is more akin to a short sword than a broad sword or a kio sword (it was primarily intended for quick stabs)...

The Gladius may "only" have 3 tricks (as John pointed out there are weapons with only 2) but I think it has enough going for it right now. It is the only weapon that qualifies for 5 different fighting styles (6 if you take Huge to wield it as light for Steel Dragon). I think the broadsword is next highest at 4 (5 if Huge). The Gladius also gets Hamstring earlier than most swords (Scimitar gets it at T1; Gladius and Bastard Sword get it at T2; the other 4 swords get it at T3 or T4).
Author:  Southernskies [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gladius Weapon Tricks (or lack thereof).
I have yet to find a use for Hamstring.

By the time you want to use it, the bad guy has already run away. Using it earlier and nothing happens, as it expires on your next action.
Author:  Harliquinn [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gladius Weapon Tricks (or lack thereof).
There are several weapon tricks that I don't see people using. It is the nature of the beast.

John
Author:  val Holryn [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gladius Weapon Tricks (or lack thereof).
I see hamstring used occasionally ... but you're right. It's not in the same league as mighty swing or twin throw or PBS which turn up continually. Like pommel strike its situationally useful.

Being really "good" with a gladius ... at least at raw damage output ... probably involves a fighting style or Grandmaster. But the weapon is hardly deficient as it is.
Author:  Nierite [ Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gladius Weapon Tricks (or lack thereof).
Actually, for Hamstring I'm starting to use it with Mighty Swing more often. After all, they move at half my pace until MY next turn, and the way Haakon goes he regularly makes 10-12 tick attacks ;)

Make them See Butterflies
Category: Advanced
Attack: Avoidance (Pr)
Speed (Recovery): +2(+3)
Range: Melee (1 target)
Effect: Weapon +5, if your attack roll also surpasses your Target's Fortitude defence, their Pace is reduced by half until your next action.

Combine this with Smite Heretic, activating my Avalanche Rune, and having Forward Stance for a 10 (+3) (+ strain) attack dealing lots of damage, after which they can't escape you or your allies.
Author:  Southernskies [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gladius Weapon Tricks (or lack thereof).
After going through the weapons, there are 18 weapons that have Hamstring (6 aren't listed on Pg 262, only the individual weapons).

(Errata note: Glaive is missing from all the Trick entries.)

After errata, only 1 trick doesn't have a tiered slot (Spiked Chain has access to Snatch Object via Adapt Weapon Trick).

**
Since Gladius can't get Mighty Swing (without GrandMaster at Tier 4), the best I could do is Sweeping Strike + Hamstring; still only a 6 tick window (unless I can trigger a Push action).

Rapid Strike *might* get some use at T.III, but my table already has Celerity running sometimes, so I'm already a Speed 3 weapon.

Starting to realise why I see so few legionnaire builds; the mechanical investment needed for variety gets high compared to other nations. They might be the best heavy infantry, but if you exclude Martial Techniques, there are not many options.
I include the Pilum in that, as I rarely see a non-minion using a shield (everything either has TWF or a 2-handed weapon).
Author:  Harliquinn [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gladius Weapon Tricks (or lack thereof).
Southernskies wrote:
Since Gladius can't get Mighty Swing (without GrandMaster at Tier 4), the best I could do is Sweeping Strike + Hamstring; still only a 6 tick window (unless I can trigger a Push action).

Rapid Strike *might* get some use at T.III, but my table already has Celerity running sometimes, so I'm already a Speed 3 weapon.


To increase your time to attack (If that's really a goal):
1) Take 2 Incidental Movements (+2 or +1 with Quick)
2) Activate a Rune (+1)

Hamstring is nice if you're trying to keep an enemy from moving past you to your squishier companions as well.

Don't forget Celerity adds +2 Damage if you're weapon is already Speed 3.

I look at my Steel Whip and wonder sometimes about the usefulness of the Tricks as well. I think many weapons could use some tweaking (which involves tweaking the tricks themselves in my opinion).

Long Strike is a useful trick, while bypass the shield and rapid strike don't strike me as anything I would bother using. I am looking forward to Snatch Object, despite its lack of use as a 'disarm'.

John
Author:  Hat [ Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gladius Weapon Tricks (or lack thereof).
Because Rapid Strike adds its speed of -1 directly, it can mean that your advanced maneuver may still be at the weapon's base speed rather than +1 without the need to take an exceptional celerity rune. So a rapid strike + sweeping strike is a +0 (4) maneuver. On an exceptional gladius the recovery is conveniently the same as the weapon's speed.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul
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