Is the -3 Damage / Target really worth the 1 Tick though is the question?

John

Not with my weapon speed already so low. I have much better combo's planned with the same recovery (Sweeping + Unbalancing; follow up with TWF, followed up with Spinning Strike if any targets missed).

For slower weapons (greatsword, flamberge etc) with the bigger base damage (by T.3 combined with Vital Strike or a few other nasties), -3 damage is not noticeable. 2d12+(Mi)-3+(equipment/talents)


I do agree that some of the tricks needs to be cleaned up/tweaked to make them useful in their purpose (Hamstring needs a more reliable duration; such as 10 ticks, like Make them Bleed).

In general, I'm not sure but, as one example, here's one:

Exceptional Fervidite Tail Bracer with Wolf Pack Tactics and d10 Strength:
3 ticks, d6+d10+3 damage = 3.5+5.5+3 / 3 = 12/3 = 4 dpt

Same doing a Mighty Swing:
4 ticks, d6+d10+8 damage = 3.5+5.5+8 / 4 = 17/4 = 4.25 dpt

Same doing a Rapid Mighty Swing:
3 ticks, d6+d10+5 damage = 3.5+5.5+5 / 3 = 14/3 = 4.67 dpt

For the other end of the spectrum, let's check Tralian Hammer:
6 ticks, d12+d10+3 damage = 6.5+5.5+3 / 6 = 15/6 = 2.5 dpt
7 ticks, d12+d10+8 damage = 6.5+5.5+8 / 7 = 20/7 = 2.85 dpt
6 ticks, d12+d10+5 damage = 6.5+5.5+5 / 6 = 17/6 = 2.88 dpt

It seems like Rapid Strike actually is worth it (at least based on these two examples).

Recovery needs to be part of the calculation (whether through using basic attack or another action).

Tail Bracer: (doesn't get Rapid Strike)
basic 3 = 12/3 = 4 dpt
Mighty Swing 4(3) = 17/7 = 2.43 dpt /// Mighty Swing + basic attack = 17+12/7 = 4.14 dpt per cycle
Rapid Mighty Swing 3(5) = 14/8 = 1.75 dpt /// Rapid Mighty Swing + 2 basic attacks = 14+12+12/9 = 4.22 dpt


Tralian Hammer
Basic 6 = 15/6 = 2.5 dpt
Mighty Swing 7(3) = 20/10 = 2 dpt /// Mighty Swing + basic attack = 20+15/13 = 2.69 dpt
Rapid Mighty Swing 6(5) = 17/11 = 1.54 dpt /// Rapid Mighty Swing + basic attack = 17+15/12 = 2.66 dpt

The slower speed 6 Tralian hammer does show a significant increase using Rapid Strike compared to the small increase of speed 3 tail bracer. Neither shows the effect of armour, of course.

The slower the weapon, the more Rapid Strike benefits in an Advanced Manoeuvre.

For efficiency, a Tralian Hammer Mighty Swing + Tail Bracer basic attack (to ride out the Recovery) gives the best 'bang'. 17+12/10 = 2.9 dpt

***
For armour 5 (a commonish problem; inc Impact):
Basic Tail Bracer: 7/3 = 2.33 dpt
Mighty Swing Tail Bracer + basic: 12+7/7 = 2.74 dpt
Rapid Mighty Swing 3(5) = 9/8 = 1.125 dpt /// Rapid Mighty Swing + 2 basic attacks = 9+8+8/9 = 2.77 dpt

Basic Tralian Hammer: 11/6 = 1.83 dpt
Mighty swing Tralian Hammer + basic: 16+11/13 = 2.07 dpt
Rapid Mighty Swing Tralian Hammer + basic: 13+11/12 = 2 dpt

<EDIT>

Since Tralian Hammer and Tail Bracer doesn't get the trick, this is all wrong anyway.

<edit> added tail brace back in.

Actually, Tail Bracer does get Rapid Strike. Worn property lets you use Unarmed tricks with it as well as those specific to Tail Bracer. It does not get Mighty Swing though (I'll be taking Grand Master in order to do that).

Tail Bracer Mighty Swing should be 17+12/7 = 4.18 dpt

An increase of 4.18 to 4.22 isn't much but it is a little something. I agree that slower weapons benefit much more from Rapid Strike but even fast weapons do get a benefit.

What am I missing?



This seems to show adding in rapid strike Decreases dpt.

John

You are correct. I misread southern's numbers. Rapid Strike does produce a slight decrease in dpt for slower weapons and a slight increase in dpt for quick weapons. It's not a huge swing in either case. I've never been a fan of Rapid Strike but I had never ran the numbers before - it's interesting to see it actually helps fast weapons more than slow (but not by much).

Its the change in recovery time that kicks it down. For the slow weapons, you only need one swing to bleed the recovery; for the fast weapons, there is recovery left over before you can get rid of it (necessitating movement or a second basic swing).

That's why the more 'interesting' tricks and manoeuvres look better, as there are better secondary effect/more damage/more targets for similiar recovery times.

I've looked at Quicken Manoeuvre (ta) a few times (as it is 'cheaper' on the recovery), but all my current planned manoeuvers are speed +1 base and won't benefit from taking it.

The numbers may change significantly once extra damage stacks up (Forward Stance, runes, Ally etc). Also Wound capability. That -3 damage drops the chance of a wound a long way down the curve.