Last visit was: It is currently Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:33 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 186 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Ask the Stat Monkey!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:17 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:34 am
Posts: 960
Location: Southwestern Ohio
That sounds somewhat familiar but I am still drawing a blank. :oops: To be fair "Ashen Council" sounds more like something out of Witch Hunter. :)

_________________
Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ask the Stat Monkey!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:37 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
Posts: 2467
Location: Central Alberta
Do you mean Born of the Fires of Hell where you meet the Erinyes representative of the Council of Ash before fighting a Big Infernal guy?

_________________
Cody Bergman
Legends of Arcanis Campaign Staff
Initial Author Contact/Adventure Vetting

Haakon Marcus val'Virdan, Divine Holy Judge of Nier
Ruma val'Vasik, Martial Crusader and Master of the Spear
Jorma Osterman, Arcane Coryani Battlemage


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ask the Stat Monkey!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:45 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:34 am
Posts: 960
Location: Southwestern Ohio
Now that sounds more familiar, although it's been a while...

_________________
Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ask the Stat Monkey!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:47 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:34 am
Posts: 960
Location: Southwestern Ohio
"From the Ashes" would be a good mod title. Someone should use it.

_________________
Michael T. Hebert

Haakon val'Ishi, Beltinian Exorcist 2.7 [Divine]
Ursula val'Holryn, Grand Master of the Tralian Hammer 2.2 [Martial]
Arun of Tultipet, Holy Champion of Neroth 1.10 [Expert]
Rikitsa val'Holryn, Psion 1.9 [Arcane]


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ask the Stat Monkey!
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:46 pm 
Nierite wrote:
Do you mean Born of the Fires of Hell where you meet the Erinyes representative of the Council of Ash before fighting a Big Infernal guy?


I do.

Thanks.

Not sure where I got "From the Ashes", to be frank....


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ask the Stat Monkey!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:14 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1306
ZCaslar wrote:
My sticking point is that as the effect is 12 ticks long the target must spend the duration under it's effect attacking the challenger.

Val'Holryn and I have gone around in circles a few times about this and hence my interest in an official response. The Talent isn't worded that the target "must use it's next action within 12 ticks to attack the Challenger."
<snip>


Here's the relevant section of the benefit from the ARG p.191
"If successful, the target considers you a significant threat and attacks you for the next 12 Ticks. This does not mean that your target will always blindly charge forth disregarding their own safety (unless the target is particularly simple minded); how the target attacks you is their choice. For example, they may command others to attack you, use a missile weapon, or simply charge."

That's the RAW.

First sentence, full stop period says they must attack for the next 12 ticks from when the challenge is issued. As written, every action that the target gets during that 12 tick window must be an attack on the challenger. The following sentences provide some leeway in how so that a frail noble with bodyguards galore can demand that his bodyguards focus on the issuer of the challenge rather than him getting up and closing.

Your question though is still very ambiguous.

ZCaslar wrote:
About the talent Challenge: assuming it's applied successfully can the Challenged target take aggressive actions that do not at least partially target the challenger?


How is an aggressive action that doesn't at least partially target the challenger supposed to be an attack on the challenger? Without one or more specific examples for Matt or Pedro to rule on, I don't see them providing a response. Otherwise it's still going to come back to GM adjudication which appears to be where you're having the problem in the first place.

Too little information to go on, at least from where I'm sitting.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ask the Stat Monkey!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:35 am 
Sir Hat:

Yup.

That's pretty much my reading of it, too. It's not "throw a fireball, lose interest and attack someone else," it's "dedicate the next 12 ticks to specifically attacking the Challenger."

My question does kinda suck, but as I'd said there have been multiple interpretations of what to me seems pretty specific mechanics and thus my mission is one seeking ultimate clarification.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ask the Stat Monkey!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:18 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1306
ZCaslar wrote:
That's pretty much my reading of it, too. It's not "throw a fireball, lose interest and attack someone else," it's "dedicate the next 12 ticks to specifically attacking the Challenger."

My question does kinda suck, but as I'd said there have been multiple interpretations of what to me seems pretty specific mechanics and thus my mission is one seeking ultimate clarification.


You've obviously encountered examples that run counter to this interpretation. Perhaps provide an example or two of where there's been disagreement?

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ask the Stat Monkey!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:39 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:59 am
Posts: 811
Location: Ontario, Canada
ZCaslar wrote:
It's not "throw a fireball, lose interest and attack someone else," it's "dedicate the next 12 ticks to specifically attacking the Challenger."

I have a 'sword and board' character who uses Challenge regularly, and I've never had a GM who thought he could just ignore the challenge and attack someone else. I've seen a lot of sweeping strikes and AoE spells which hit allies in addition to me, but offensive actions should be focused on the challenger for the entire 12 ticks.

_________________
Akira Currier
aka Raseri 'Crash' val'Emman - Master of the Incandescent Flame (Martial 3.6)
aka Leif of House Borghild - Skohir Human Myrmidon (Martial 2.6)
aka Rurik of Nol Dappa - Dwarven War Priest (Divine 2.3)


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Ask the Stat Monkey!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:33 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:06 am
Posts: 1958
Location: Portland OR
It's been a long while since I ran HP 1-4 so I don't really remember the incident in question. Though I assume I was the judge in question that Zac is referring to, I don't really recall any specifics ...compounded by having run the mod several times so things blur together. Given the module I assume the challenge was delivered in the last fight against the summoned/birthed Devil King.

Without knowing more I can only offer a few thoughts on managing challenge from behind the GM screen. (1) Yes. I generally agree, if you are challenged then you spend 12 ticks "dealing with" the character who challenges you...though I think there are corner cases where this wouldn't apply.

Some possible exceptions: (2) Challenge doesn't make someone suicidal, so if the only way to reach you is swimming by through lava I think a bad guy might just stand on safe ground and scream insults at you. (3) Challenge (still) doesn't make someone suicidal so I think a bad guy who doesn't care about his/her honor can (try to) run away if they're on their last legs. (4) An enemy who has minions attacking a PC is (IMO) on top of the situation/challenge and can take reasonable actions (though in calculating what is reasonable the NPC still thinks the Challenging PC is a threat). (5) An adversary can always spend fate points if needed to do the impossible and ignore a challenge for any given action. And finally though I would be very careful about implementing this, (6)there may be plot reasons in a module or encounter for an NPC to ignore great threats to them to do "something important!" i.e. The noble mother doesn't care if she dies as long as her infant survives the scene. If the encounter describes such overwhelming motives I might have such an NPC run into a burning barn to try and rescue her infant even if the PC Nierite just challenged her.

So once again I think the circumstances and situations influence the outcomes. I definately think if you spend (precious) talents on abilities you deserve to get tangible benefits and should not have such abilities arbitrarily neutered ... but I also believe when it's appropriate that you don't necessarily get exactly the benefit you expected.

Given how long ago that mod ran I don't remember what issues arose. It might also have been my first real experience with the mechanics of challenge way back when. I come from the school of judging that says "good enough now mid adventure" is better than "perfect after 20 minutes of search or debate." I do my rules research after tables are run. ...So if that was my first time dealing with challenges then it's possible my ruling may have been less than perfect. Mea Culpa

If it was the last fight with the Devil King 4 and or 5 also would have applied.

My thoughts.

_________________
Eric Gorman

AKA Ambassador Tukufu, man of letters, tomb raider and Master Sword Sage
. . . and Sir Szymon val'Holryn, Order of the Phoenix
Formerly Sir Jaeger val'Holryn. Weilder of the Holy Avenger: Thonanos. Gave his soul to help free King Noen


Top
Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 186 posts ]  Moderators: james.zwiers, PCI Eric, PCI_StatMonkey Go to page Previous  1 ... 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Theme created StylerBB.net & kodeki