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 Post subject: Continuing the discussion of the spell Righteousness
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 10:20 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 am
Posts: 208
I realized after my post that the mighty28 had asked that his thread only be used to ask question not give answers or opinions. So I'm creating a new thread for this.

Ok here is what I said.

The Vault wrote:
Quote:
Righteousness:
You gain the benefits of Benediction on a Hero, Benediction on a Weapon, and Benediction on Armor. ...


Quote:
Benediction on a Hero: The spell bestows upon the Hero the blessing of +1 to all Might Action and Damage rolls.

Benediction on a Weapon: The spell bestows upon the weapon the blessing of +1 to all Damage rolls made with that weapon.


This seems pretty clear. The damage does not stack. But the Hero Benediction means if you switch to a secondary weapon, you still receive the +1 damage (it doesn't say it's only for attacks that use Might for damage) also the +1 Might can be used for things like Athletic Skill rolls.

To anyone who says "but what's the point of having Benediction on a Weapon if it doesn't stack?"
The answer lies in the rest of the spells.

Quote:
You may, at your discretion, replace one of the three benedictions above with your Deity's benediction.


Keep Hero and Armor replace Weapon.


Nierite said this:
Quote:
You are correct that for someone who single-wields a Might-based weapon the Hero and Weapon do not stack. If, however, you DUAL-wield weapons, usually at least one of them is a Light Quickness-based weapon. This means you can Benedict the Hero for the heavier weapon (if you have one) and Benedict the Quickness-based weapon, therefore gaining the +1 to damage with both weapons.
My question about Rigtheousness, though, is can you adapt the Deity-specific bonus for higher values? It does not specify that you CANNOT like Benediction of the Gods does, but it does reference that other spell for details so I find it a bit unclear.


And Astroliar brought it back to his original question.
Quote:
Which makes sense, for most other Deities - Hurrian's bonus is a greater version of the regular Hero Benediction, that eventually becomes mute with adaptation of the spell for greater bonuses, hence my inquire into the differences.


So I'm going to try to answer both questions at the same time. Because if I'm right then their answers are connected.

Nierite is reading Benediction on a Hero differently then me and maybe others agree with him or agree with me. He is reading it as "The spell bestows upon the Hero the blessing of a +1 to all Might Action and (Might) Damage rolls." I've added the second Might to clarify how he's reading it. That is why he is saying the Benediction on a Weapon has it's uses on weapons that use Quickness attribute to deal damage. I disagree I believe that the Benediction on a Hero give a static +1 to damage, and Benediction on a Weapon give a static +1 to damage only on that weapon. That's why they don't stack.

Now Benedictions of the Gods clear states that the Deity specific Benedictions can't be enhanced using the Benedictions of the Gods Adaptations. Specifically the +1 to effect to a maximum effect of +3. But Righteousness is a different spell with it's own Adaptation, a simple +1 to all 3 effects.

I would say if you switched out Weapon for Deity, or Hero for Deity (in the case of Hurrian) Then yes the Deity effect would receive the +1.

Remember Righteousness is Self only, with no way to place it on other players. Also unlike Benedictions which can go up to maximum +3, this only goes up to +2. With it being Self only, a bit weaker and a Tier 3 spell, this makes sense to me.

So this means for the average Divine worshiper they would probably want to take Armor, Hero, and Deity with the +1 (+2 AR, +2 Might Rolls, +2 Damage, +2 Deity), for a Hurrianite they'd take Armor, Deity and Weapon/Hero with the +1 (+2 AR, +3 Might Rolls, +3 Damage).

But I'm no one official, so I could be wrong. This is just the way I read it.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuing the discussion of the spell Righteousness
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 10:52 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1037
The Vault wrote:
Nierite is reading Benediction on a Hero differently then me and maybe others agree with him or agree with me. He is reading it as "The spell bestows upon the Hero the blessing of a +1 to all Might Action and (Might) Damage rolls." I've added the second Might to clarify how he's reading it. That is why he is saying the Benediction on a Weapon has it's uses on weapons that use Quickness attribute to deal damage. I disagree I believe that the Benediction on a Hero give a static +1 to damage, and Benediction on a Weapon give a static +1 to damage only on that weapon. That's why they don't stack.


I read Benediction the same as Nierite (Hero grants +1 (Might) Damage rolls) but it's mostly irrelevant. In either case, it doesn't stack with Weapon because they both have the spell source and are both static bonuses (and the same spell so doubly don't stack).

The Vault wrote:
Now Benedictions of the Gods clear states that the Deity specific Benedictions can't be enhanced using the Benedictions of the Gods Adaptations. Specifically the +1 to effect to a maximum effect of +3. But Righteousness is a different spell with it's own Adaptation, a simple +1 to all 3 effects.

I would say if you switched out Weapon for Deity, or Hero for Deity (in the case of Hurrian) Then yes the Deity effect would receive the +1.


This one I disagree with you about. Righteousness says nothing about altering Benediction beyond being self-only and providing 3 bonuses at once. It also specifically says "see Benediction for more information" and Benediction explicitly says the Deity-specific bonus can not be adapted.

The Vault wrote:
But I'm no one official, so I could be wrong. This is just the way I read it.


I'm also nobody official (so I could be wrong)...

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Ss'kethis - Expert Holy Champion of the Fire Dragon 3.1
G'hyu'thyh Sungha - Martial Templar of Illiir 1.7
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 Post subject: Re: Continuing the discussion of the spell Righteousness
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 9:40 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 am
Posts: 208
wilcoxon wrote:
I read Benediction the same as Nierite (Hero grants +1 (Might) Damage rolls) but it's mostly irrelevant. In either case, it doesn't stack with Weapon because they both have the spell source and are both static bonuses (and the same spell so doubly don't stack).


You're right it's not relevant to stacking, but this is still relevant on how to use the spell. If you and Nierite are correct then Benediction on a Weapon is not as useless as I believe. It means you should place the Benediction on a Weapon on weapons that deal damage with Quickness. And depending on the type of weapon you use will dictate which Benediction you substitute (if any).
Some fighters use both Might and Quickness damaging weapons. If you are correct a warrior could place the Weapon Benediction on a bow for +1 damage and use the Hero the benediction for +1 damage with their broadsword.

wilcoxon wrote:
Righteousness says nothing about altering Benediction beyond being self-only and providing 3 bonuses at once. It also specifically says "see Benediction for more information" and Benediction explicitly says the Deity-specific bonus can not be adapted.


We are not altering Benedictions at all, Righteousness is a different spell. The reason is says "See Benedictions of the Gods for more information." is because it doesn't have to rewrite all the effects again especially the Deity list.
When you look at Benediction of the Gods, the Deity Benedictions are an Adaptation, that is where the restriction is located. But we aren't using the Adaptation from Benedictions of the Gods, we are using the Effect from Righteousness.
The Effect for Righteousness says "... You may, at your discretion, replace one of the three benedictions above with your Deity's benedictions. ..."
The Adaptation for Righteous says: "Increase the CTN by 6 and Strain by 2 to increase the bonuses provided by this spell by +1"
Righteousness is a higher Tier version of Benedictions of the Gods, it would have superior effects. Diminish Fatigue to Revitalize, Ghostly Adversary to Ghostly Legion, the game has many of these superior version of lower spells.
Besides what is being controlled here, +2 Logic rolls for Altherians, +6 Stamina for Elorii, +2 Prowess roles to Nierites, or the all mighty +2 wounds for Ansharians.

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 Post subject: Re: Continuing the discussion of the spell Righteousness
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 9:49 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1353
Ok,

My understanding is as follows:

Hero: +1 to all Might Action and (Might) Damage rolls
Weapon: +1 damage - could be a bow for example and many weapons such as gladius are quick.
Static bonuses to damage from any spell won't stack per the stacking rules.

I also do not believe that Righteousness gives you the ability to bump up your god specific ability past the initial level. The reference back to the previous spell is a good indicator. There it's specifically excluded. In this spell there's a reference back to the previous spell and no explicit override. As such the more restrictive interpretation I believe is the correct one.

As for this being a higher level spell with a better effect, it does - it provides 3 benedictions instead of 1 in a single casting. That's pretty substantial.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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