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 Post subject: Re: Anshar-specific Benediction of the Gods buff?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:29 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
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I fall somewhere in between. On one hand, I think simply granting an additional max wound where any wound damage you receive sticks around (eg 4/4 base -> 5/5 benedicted -> 4/5 wounded -> 3/4 post-spell) when the spell ended is too underpowered. On the other hand, it definitely should not provide infinite wounds.

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 Post subject: Re: Anshar-specific Benediction of the Gods buff?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:35 am 
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I personally like the concept of "Temporary Hit Points" for Wounds, mostly because it is ultimately such a niche spell. Only Ansharans can do it and you can only gain +1 Wound this way (Deity-specific benedictions cannot be adapted). Yes, you can keep pumping up this 'shield' on people, but to do so your Ansharan is going to find themselves out of the fight for a long time keeping this 'shield' up.

That said, this does seem like a T2 spell in terms of power to me, so I can see and share the belief that it is inappropriate for Benedictions of the Gods (especially when you get Righteousness (Sp)).

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 Post subject: Re: Anshar-specific Benediction of the Gods buff?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:49 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 842
Location: Michigan
wilcoxon wrote:
I fall somewhere in between. On one hand, I think simply granting an additional max wound where any wound damage you receive sticks around (eg 4/4 base -> 5/5 benedicted -> 4/5 wounded -> 3/4 post-spell) when the spell ended is too underpowered. On the other hand, it definitely should not provide infinite wounds.


As far as I can tell it only provides infinite wounds the same way healing provides infinite stamina - if you've got people standing around spending their valuable action to replace your resources while in combat. Just like healing, I think it seems very reasonable.

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 Post subject: Re: Anshar-specific Benediction of the Gods buff?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1037
Thinking more and looking at some stuff, I've gone back to liking the "temp hp" version. It's the simplest version and, as others have said, it would require an Ansharan to spend most of the battle rebuffing to give "infinite" wounds. Righteousness is even less concerning than the base Benediction (it gives 10 strain so nobody will be casting it much).

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 Post subject: Re: Anshar-specific Benediction of the Gods buff?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:54 am 
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So for those claiming the Ansharan would spend most of the fight casting this spell if it worked like a 'phantom Wound', here's the reality as I would see it playing out.

Before a Fight Scene (Where most GM's allow pre-casting of a buff, etc): Ansharan casts +1 Wound on the whole party (Whoever wants that particular Benediction). Now, during a normal fight (outside of a BI) the likelihood of multiple characters taking wounds is pretty low (Especially at Tier 1 where this spell is available). The likelihood of multiple characters taking multiple wounds is almost non-existent from my experience. Usually 1 (maybe 2) person might take a Wound from massive damage or a lucky crit. With the "Phantom Wound" everyone leaves the fight unwounded when the spell wears off.

If someone takes their 'phantom Wound', the Ansharan has to spend only 3 ticks to give them another Phantom Wound (4 if you count the 1 Strain). That's basically the cost of moving your Pace. The odds of someone taking a 2nd Wound in a normal fight is very low (let alone more than 1 person taking a 2nd Wound), so the Ansharan has spent 4 ticks to provide phantom wounds to everyone (and in the case of the heavily damaged an extra).

In the case of a BI, where healing, etc. are not always going to happen between encounters and Wounds are the currency of the day, a phantom wound every encounter is going to greatly affect table balance. I would challenge anyone to say that in a BI, if the Ansharan had a choice to grant someone another "Phantom Wound" after they took one for 3 (or 4) ticks, that it wouldn't occur.

Comparing this to other spells that heal Wounds on others:
Resurgence (Tier 3): Restore a vanquished ally and heal 1 Wound - Speed 8 (4)
Healing Waters (Tier 1): Heal 1 Wound (1 / day)
Lay on Hands (Tier 4): Heal 1 Wound by sacrificing a Wound - Speed 3 (10)
Mend Wounds (Tier 3): Heal 1 Wound - Speed 10 (4)

Given that Anshar is about suffering, reading the spell as "You can now suffer *more* Wounds for your cause" (Option 2) seems more fitting than "You now are immune to Wounds" (Option 1) at a high level.

Now a potential change to this spell could be that while under the Benediction, for Anshar, the target ignores the penalties for 1 Wound. It's not quite the same but would alleviate the Phantom Wound of Option 1 and the "What happens when the spell ends dilemma" of Option 2.

John

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 Post subject: Re: Anshar-specific Benediction of the Gods buff?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:20 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1353
From my perspective there are 3 keys to a final decision.

1. It's one option on a Tier I spell
2. Keep it simple
3. Avoid broken combos

As such I would say that someone under the effect of the spell has their maximum woulds increased. The primary benefit is in avoiding being vanquished by wounds. Some characters have low defenses / AR so it could be used to help keep that PC up.

There are times when an NPC has been vanquished by wounds or is in danger of it. The benediction would help the NPC as well. I can think of at least one mod where that would come in very handy.

When the spell ends the wound goes away and all real damage taken is still present resulting in vanquishing if necessary. I would allow the spell to be maintained from scene to scene if the plan is to get a critically wounded ally to appropriate healing so that a character isn't put in jeopardy at the turning of a page.

This approach eliminates endless wounds, avoids errata (though probably still an FAQ) and seems in line with the power of the spell.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Anshar-specific Benediction of the Gods buff?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:17 am 
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Hat wrote:
From my perspective there are 3 keys to a final decision.

1. It's one option on a Tier I spell
2. Keep it simple
3. Avoid broken combos

As such I would say that someone under the effect of the spell has their maximum woulds increased. The primary benefit is in avoiding being vanquished by wounds. Some characters have low defenses / AR so it could be used to help keep that PC up.


+1

I like the solution for all the reasons given and it seems to fit with the flavor of Anshar.

John

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 Post subject: Re: Anshar-specific Benediction of the Gods buff?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:31 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:12 pm
Posts: 1037
I don't think the Anshar Benediction would be used outside of a BI even with the more generous "phantom wound" interpretation. The other benefits, on average, will be far more useful.

In a BI, it would be extremely useful as a "phantom wound". However, in some scenes, I don't think it would be possible to keep it up for everyone in the group. In my experience, it seems like wounds in BIs are most often dealt in batches in certain encounters.

If it simply raises the max wounds, the only time I can ever see it being used is if someone is down to 1 wound left in a BI. On the other hand, it's entirely possible they would just want to risk dropping and have someone cast Stabilize on them (healing 1-2 wounds).

It is 1 option of a tier 1 spell (so shouldn't be too powerful) but, to me, all options need to be useful (of course, some of the others (Fire Dragon) are only situationally marginally useful).

In any case, it would be good to get an official ruling so everyone knows how it's supposed to work.

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 Post subject: Re: Anshar-specific Benediction of the Gods buff?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:51 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1353
wilcoxon wrote:
<snip>
In any case, it would be good to get an official ruling so everyone knows how it's supposed to work.


Agreed. Hopefully Pedro, Matt or someone else official will chime in.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul


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 Post subject: Re: Anshar-specific Benediction of the Gods buff?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:30 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 842
Location: Michigan
wilcoxon wrote:
I don't think the Anshar Benediction would be used outside of a BI even with the more generous "phantom wound" interpretation. The other benefits, on average, will be far more useful.

In a BI, it would be extremely useful as a "phantom wound". However, in some scenes, I don't think it would be possible to keep it up for everyone in the group. In my experience, it seems like wounds in BIs are most often dealt in batches in certain encounters.

If it simply raises the max wounds, the only time I can ever see it being used is if someone is down to 1 wound left in a BI. On the other hand, it's entirely possible they would just want to risk dropping and have someone cast Stabilize on them (healing 1-2 wounds).

It is 1 option of a tier 1 spell (so shouldn't be too powerful) but, to me, all options need to be useful (of course, some of the others (Fire Dragon) are only situationally marginally useful).

In any case, it would be good to get an official ruling so everyone knows how it's supposed to work.


I agree across the board. I think even with the phantom wound interpretation this benediction is average power in modules, but in a BI it is extremely valuable. And I think that's OK, since it's only really shining in rare occasions (BI's). If it just ups your maximum, then in some ways its just briefly delaying the healing of your wounds by mend wounds, and it's hard to run when the spell expires. With that interpretation, it's just better to get a benediction to up your fortitude or AV to hope to either not be hit, or to not take a wound when you do. Personally, I think it is better to let this usually mediocre ability have its day to shine.

But I agree, we've pretty much talked it to death and all we can hope for is an official ruling.

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