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 Post subject: Skill focus and knowledge's
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 842
Location: Michigan
Two questions here, both about skill focus. The text of the talent says, “when this Talent is acquired, it is always applied to a specific focus within a particular field of knowledge; some examples include Religion (Heresy) and Etiquette (Law).” But in many cases when given it appears to lack the particular field specialization, and the particular field specialization feels clumsy to me since most aren’t spelled out. Some examples of where you can get it are the archivist scholar, where you get, “Skill Focus (any two Knowledge specializations)” and Master Wayfarer where you get, “skill Focus Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering), and Skill Focus Knowledge (History).” The second one especially spell out what you get, and lacks a particular field within the specialization. Is it possible to take skill focus knowledge religion, or do you need to take a particular field like knowledge religion (heresy) as in the talent text? If you do need to further specialize, how do you choose specializations, and what those actually apply to?

Second question has to do with the blessed lands book and counting ranks in a skill for the purpose of knowing things. I one needs 12 ranks in knowledge history to know something, but has 9 ranks in knowledge history and skill focus knowledge history (and thus a +19 in that skill, effectively) do they know it? From the strictest interpretation I’m sure the answer is no, but from the purpose of the requirement, I would say yes. I mean, if someone has gone through all the trouble of getting skill focus (a limited talent) it seems to me like it should apply to their knowledge checks.

Extra credit question – how about passive knowledge checks? Again, strictly speaking I’m sure it doesn’t apply, (especially since it says, “You gain a +10 bonus to all Logic Action Skill Rolls when attempting to recall facts within your focused field of knowledge”) but that seems silly to me, that if you have gone through the work of specializing in a field, that you would only get the application on rolls, but not your passive, I mean generally, either you know something or you don’t, right?

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Skill focus and knowledge's
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:03 pm 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
toodeep wrote:
Extra credit question – how about passive knowledge checks? Again, strictly speaking I’m sure it doesn’t apply, (especially since it says, “You gain a +10 bonus to all Logic Action Skill Rolls when attempting to recall facts within your focused field of knowledge”) but that seems silly to me, that if you have gone through the work of specializing in a field, that you would only get the application on rolls, but not your passive, I mean generally, either you know something or you don’t, right?

Logically speaking I would agree with you, but the rules are very clear. A talent has to specifically state that it adds to your passive before you gain that benefit.

I have also been concerned that there isn't a list of pre-approved specializations for PCs to pick from. If, for instance, I were to put ranks in Knowledge (Religion: That ritual they do on in Savona on Tuesday nights), I have absolutely no guarantee that it will ever come up in a module. If, on the other hand, each knowledge skill had a PCI-approved list of a half dozen subcategories, then players and module authors would be on the same page.

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 Post subject: Re: Skill focus and knowledge's
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:26 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
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Location: Michigan
acurrier wrote:
Logically speaking I would agree with you, but the rules are very clear. A talent has to specifically state that it adds to your passive before you gain that benefit. .


Agreed, though it seems in this case maybe it should be added.

acurrier wrote:
I have also been concerned that there isn't a list of pre-approved specializations for PCs to pick from. If, for instance, I were to put ranks in Knowledge (Religion: That ritual they do on in Savona on Tuesday nights), I have absolutely no guarantee that it will ever come up in a module. If, on the other hand, each knowledge skill had a PCI-approved list of a half dozen subcategories, then players and module authors would be on the same page.


I agree, though as I said, some of the examples I showed don't appear to require the specialization. A wayfarer gets skill focus: knowledge history. There is no additional specialization there. I'm wondering if just the specialization in history is enough, since that is already a specialization of knowledge. The original talent text doesn't seem to agree, but it seems like most examples don't require further specialization, and further specialization is complicated. Right now, as a player, I am inclined to just take skill focus: knowledge history if I get there since that is what the path says, and not worry about that not syncing with the specific text of the talent.

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 Post subject: Re: Skill focus and knowledge's
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:21 pm 
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If a path gives you something then you get what it says. Even if it tweaks the norm. If you somehow get past the limited descriptor then you still need a subtype when choosing your skill focus.

Your response by judge will vary ... but I expect you will find many are generous in regards to skill focus. If the module has a TN check to gain information about crustacean monsters the pcs might face and somehow you happen to have Skill Focus: Myths & Legends (Crustaceans) my personal response is probably to not even make you roll...I'm just giving you the information.

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 Post subject: Re: Skill focus and knowledge's
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:51 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 11:17 am
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1) As the Talents states "it is always applied to a specific focus within a particular field of knowledge." This means you pick the specialization.
In your example of the Wayfarer: Master you get Skill Focus Knowledge (History) and Skill Focus Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) you still must pick the specialization.
Knowledge (History: Coryan) Knowledge (History: Blessed lands), Knowledge (History: Ssethregoran Empire), Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering: Myrantian), Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering: Milander)
Nothing in that Path removes the requirement to pick the sub-specialization.

Yes there is no list of approved specializations. This stops people from limiting themselves to just what's on the list, both players and modules writers. But it also removes the guarantee that what you are taking is the most mechanically efficient choice. Take what fits the character, because there is no guarantee you'll use it in the future.

2. No. The requirements in the book states you need X ranks. Skill Focus doesn't give you any ranks. It gives you a bonus to rolls. You don't have to roll to know what is in the Blessed book. Either you have the ranks and know it, or you don't have the ranks and don't know it.

Extra credit: No. Except for the Blessed Lands book there are no passive Knowledge checks. Modules have frequently stated "Players can roll <insert knowledge skill> to know this. And players of this sort automatically know this anyway." A GM would be well within their right to just give you the knowledge as long as your sub-specialization matches. As PCI has stated it's not about rolling dice it's about role-playing and the story (pg 135 A:RPG).

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