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| How does Enemy of My Enemy work? http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1703 |
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| Author: | marybamford [ Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | How does Enemy of My Enemy work? |
I’ve heard from other players that this spell is now being adjudicated differently than in the past. I’d like to get a ruling on how it should be run. The effect of the spell is written as: "If you successfully affect your Target, upon his next action he must attack the foe of your choice with extreme prejudice, up to and including casting through 4 points of strain. Both Targets (the Target of the illusion and the opponent you wish him to attack) must be clearly visible and within range." On a successful casting, what I’ve seen done is: the spell’s target moves (if and as needed) to attack his designated “enemy” and makes the attack, via spell, weapon, whatever. If the target can’t move to make the attack in one action, he continues moving as needed until he can make the attack, or perhaps he runs over to the enemy and attacks after the movement's ticks go by. As a result, EoME is useful because: 1. It redirects an target’s attack to an enemy of the caster, not an ally. 2. It often delays the target by forcing them to move across the battleground. But EoME IS expensive to the cast. At a minimum, it takes 6 takes to cast and 5 ticks of strain. That’s a total of 11 ticks!!! A new way (to me, at least) of running this spell that I’ve heard about is: the spell’s target moves (if and as needed) to attack his designated “enemy” and makes the attack. If the target cannot reach the enemy within one action (e.g., the 4 ticks to move your Pace, or a charge), then the spell ends without an actual attack being made. The up-shot of running EoME this way would be that a lot of the time that the caster spends 11 ticks to waste at most 4 ticks of the target’s time. Doesn’t seem like the cost is balanced by the results. In that same amount of time, one could cast (nearly) 2 Elemental Bolts, or 2 Blood Boils, or 2 Diminish Fatigues. Thanks. |
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| Author: | val Holryn [ Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Enemy of My Enemy work? |
On a related note: does the spell work on "mindless" things (golems). And does the answer change if cast as a Control Spell or an Illusion spell? |
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| Author: | Harliquinn [ Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Enemy of My Enemy work? |
Mary I've never been at a table where the target of EomE ever spent more than 1 action under its effects. If for whatever reason, the target can't move to and attack or use a ranged attack or spell against the designated target, they spend their turn trying to. However, at the end of that movement, the spell ends. While I appreciate the tick difference in casting vs. the target's attack, the thing to keep in mind is that the spell has 2 effects: It negates an enemy's turn AND gives an extra turn to the caster's side. That for 6 ticks is very impressive (strain doesn't count as you can still perform actions while under strain). The caster really needs to use this spell wisely. Some good targets include: 1) Enemy melee fighter within 2 squares of another enemy (to use incidental and a strong attack) 2) Enemy melee fighter more than 2 but less than 2x pace from another enemy (causing a charge, which adds speed to the attack and leaves them with 12 Avoidance) 3) Ranged/Caster with strong attacks (they can attack almost anyone) If the caster of EomE is using it on a melee combatant too far from their designated target, the spell is only going to cause them to move towards the target then end. If the spell's intent was to cause the target to spend as many actions as possible until they could make an attack, it would be worded as such. There would be too many ways to exploit that (e.g. Force them to attack a creature they can't reach due to elevation or behind a cage, etc). Hope that helps. John |
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| Author: | marybamford [ Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Enemy of My Enemy work? |
John, Thanks for the clarification. Someone must've cast an "Alter Memory' spell on me  I could swear that when my primary has cast the spell in the past, that the GM had the target move then attack. But now I know and will plan accordingly, both as player and GM.
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| Author: | acurrier [ Sun Mar 22, 2015 2:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Enemy of My Enemy work? |
As a GM I could see occasionally using the two action move-attack to give the PCs a bit of a break in an otherwise tough combat, but for the other 99% of the time I would completely agree with what John posted. Maybe your GM was just going easy on you 
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| Author: | mighty28 [ Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Enemy of My Enemy work? |
val Holryn wrote: On a related note: does the spell work on "mindless" things (golems). And does the answer change if cast as a Control Spell or an Illusion spell? It depends on how the creature is designed. Generally speaking, Constructs and Undead "may" have the Mindless quality. as such, the are immune to Control, Illusion and Horror effects. So, no, it does not work on them. If, however, the critter does not have this quality (intelligent undead, an Altherian Artificer that "downloaded" his brain into a construct, etc), then the spell would work fine on them. |
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| Author: | val Holryn [ Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Enemy of My Enemy work? |
Thanks Matt. that's exactly how I've been running it. |
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| Author: | RMFIRANEK [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Enemy of My Enemy work? |
for enemy of my enemy when is the target of the who effected declared? |
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| Author: | Nierite [ Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Enemy of My Enemy work? |
I always rule it as when the spell is cast. The fluff says you confuse your target into viewing their ally as an emeny. |
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| Author: | Harliquinn [ Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How does Enemy of My Enemy work? |
Nierite wrote: I always rule it as when the spell is cast. The fluff says you confuse your target into viewing their ally as an emeny. This is how I view it at as well. You designate the target when you cast the spell on a creature. Now, there are times when that target dies before the affected creature's turn, and depending upon the difficulty of the encounter, I might allow the caster to designate a new target when the creature's turn comes up as a Push action (Maybe Push 2). It would be very subjective though. John |
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