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Advanced Spells and Arcane+Divine
http://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=169
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Author:  Mythestopheles [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Advanced Spells and Arcane+Divine

So divine spell casters can't use advanced spells, that much makes sense. What if I had both Arcane AND Divine Spell Casting as talents? Would I still only be able to use my arcane spells for advanced spells?

In a similar vein, what about Adaptations with the [Arcane] type?

Thanks

Author:  SamhainIA [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advanced Spells and Arcane+Divine

point one, you cant create advanced spells from two different sources ( like psionic and divine )

two you cant apply arcane talents to divine spells(aka non arcane spells)

edit sources, look at pg 346 ARPG

Author:  PCIHenry [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advanced Spells and Arcane+Divine

Hello,

Mythestopheles wrote:
What if I had both Arcane AND Divine Spell Casting as talents?


And this isn't allowed either. You can either cast Arcane magic OR Divine, but not both.

Author:  Mythestopheles [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advanced Spells and Arcane+Divine

Thanks for the replies!

PCIHenry wrote:
Hello,

And this isn't allowed either. You can either cast Arcane magic OR Divine, but not both.

Psionics doesn't seem to have that restriction, would Divine/Psionics work?

SamhainIA wrote:
point one, you cant create advanced spells from two different sources ( like psionic and divine )

Fair enough, I was thinking two divine spells, though.

Author:  wilcoxon [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advanced Spells and Arcane+Divine

I think you are correct that Psionics and Divine will work.

However, I'm pretty sure your other ideas will not work:
  • you can't create advanced spells from multiple sources or divine
  • you can't use arcane talents on divine spells (or vice-versa)

Author:  SamhainIA [ Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advanced Spells and Arcane+Divine

Psionics is the rule breaker, it can be combined with divine.

Quote:
SamhainIA wrote:
point one, you cant create advanced spells from two different sources ( like psionic and divine )

Fair enough, I was thinking two divine spells, though.


Divine spells cannot be turned in to advanced spells, the basis for that ruling was :

Quote:
Theurgy does not permit any innovation or deviation beyond those Adaptations already present in the description of the Cant.

Pg 342 ARPG


So here is how this works for advanced spells right now ( Pedro when he releases the next FAQ, will have the mechanics we hammered out on the previous edition of this board)

1 the spells have to share the same source, the means they have to both be learned as psionic spells or primal spells. You cant combine primal and psionics ever.

2 divine source spells cant be turned into advanced spells

3 adaptations have a [type] associated with them, you can use [arcanum] talents on arcane spells and [devout] talents on divine spells, and you can use [arcanum, devout] on both.

Author:  Mythestopheles [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advanced Spells and Arcane+Divine

Thanks SamhainIA, that makes sense.

I had one other related question that's come up in our group. For Counter Spell, does it completely negate the speed/strain for the countered spell, leaving them with just a d4 push? Because that seems rather... Lackluster, as they can just cast it again, as the cost of Counter Spell is more than a d4 push.

Author:  val Holryn [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Advanced Spells and Arcane+Divine

SamhainIA wrote:

3 adaptations have a [type] associated with them, you can use [arcanum] talents on arcane spells and [devout] talents on divine spells, and you can use [arcanum, devout] on both.


I hadn't thought of this before ... but the Anointed Priest of Belisarda grants Adaptation: Elemental Influx. Normally an Arcanum talent. I assume that since its granted by a Path you still get to use it with divine spells. Or does it need errata? Just curious since there is an elorii mod on the way.

Author:  Nierite [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advanced Spells and Arcane+Divine

I am sure it works as a devout due to the way it is goven. Hell, as the talent does not specify at time of acquiring, it might be a "typeless" version of the talent.

Author:  Harliquinn [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Advanced Spells and Arcane+Divine

Mythestopheles wrote:
Thanks SamhainIA, that makes sense.

I had one other related question that's come up in our group. For Counter Spell, does it completely negate the speed/strain for the countered spell, leaving them with just a d4 push? Because that seems rather... Lackluster, as they can just cast it again, as the cost of Counter Spell is more than a d4 push.


The way it is published and reiterated by the PCI staff is that it's just the d4 Push. This was debated heavily in the old forums. This is how it should be run at conventions and for most campaign play.

That said, in home games or with player agreement ahead of time, I use the houserule that it's treated like an unsuccessfully cast spell. This works for PC's and NPC's so it's fair. The player's like it better and when I counterspell them it hurts more :)

John

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