So the Arcanicon event this year had harvester's running around. At the table I was typically at we had Psionics as well as Sarishan Sorcerer Priests. No Eldritch or Elder though.

If you're an Elder/Eldritch caster how often do you try and cast subtly if ever? If not, why not? And when do you choose to do so? Casting most tier 1 spells subtly as just base spells can't be done before tier 2.1 as they typically have a CTN of 18, cast subtly means 24 (Passive 4 + 8 ranks).

If you're a Psionic caster, do you ever try and cast subtly? I agree with the argument that clear eyes are a give away and if you can't hide it, why bother. On the other hand, to be able to spot clear eyes vs. gray eyes you've got to be really up close and personal. If you don't draw attention to yourself, there are too many people to cover to expect them to be able to track you down.

As a Sarishan, do Harvesters give you pause?

Subtlety is certainly called for based on the setting, but that doesn't always make it a popular choice at an actual table. Just curious.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

I don't personally have an Elder or Eldrich caster, but in all the years I've been playing Arcanis I can't think of many cases where I've seen a caster attempt to hide their spell casting. My personal feeling on the matter is that Harvesters aren't seen as a threat for PCs. When was the last time a Harvester abducted a PC? I think it happened at a BI once or twice, but I've never heard of it in a module. The times that you do encounter Harvesters in module, you are being backed up by five of your toughest friends, and you generally leave the Ymandragorans as smears on the pavement.

I think that Ymandragore, as a threat, is probably perceived to be about on par with the Reavers (ie not actually threatening, minor inconvenience from time to time). In reality they should be much more dangerous, perhaps closer to the Silence. Perhaps this is something that can be addressed. As a GM, I would like to see a short document that outlines and codifies the activities which are most likely to draw attention, and a GM's options if a PC does get abducted in the night.

I understand why there would be hesitance to do this as generally being abducted by Harvesters means your character is gone, but I think that it would generate much more realistic fear and caution...especially after word got around of a few players having their characters taken.

The idea of loosing your character is not a concept that people like, but if some mechanic was introduced to represent a Harvester strike force like:

1. Every time you cast a spell that is not in the complete wilderness there is a chance that you will be noticed by a harvester that is under cover (perhaps a roll of a 1 on a d10)

2, In certain encounters if you cast a spell you are noticed (written by Author into Mod)

3. Each time you are noticed you get 1 point of fame with Ymandragore

4. When you reach 10 points of fame, at the end of each mod the GM make a roll. They roll two d10 and if they roll double 1s then you are ambushed while alone and captured

5. The roll increases as fame increases ie Double 1 or 2 at 20+ fame; 1,2 or 3 at 30 etc

6. If captured Player is given a standard cert saying that the PC is out of play until rescued. (Maybe special rescue opportunities at big cons or in mods etc)

7. If captured, and the hero has a fate point left, then they can use the fate point to avoid capture. They get the 'Avoid Capture" general cert and for the next game they play they have no fate (as it has been used) and can not be given any by another player.

This would increase the fear of the harvesters to the players

The odd would still be that the players can avoid capture

Even 100 fame points would be only a 10% chance at the end of the mod. Which they can avoid by using a fate point so they would really need double on two consecutive mods.

And by making sure there is a rescue attempt once a year, its not a permanent loss, just a time out.

Cheers

The issue of subtle casting hasn't come up much with Tukufu. Usually while killing bandits in the wilderness or crawling around in some hole in the ground you'd think being spotted by Ymandrakes is unlikely. But he did manifest powers fairly openly in Savona when attacked.

I would note that casting subtly as a psion is harder than with Eldritch. So no, I haven't yet tried to fast with subtlety.

There are ways for module writers to mess with PCs beyond the blunt hammer of direct Harvesting. I look toward to doing so in the future.

So the related question - if you end up playing say an elder or eldritch caster with a healthy fear/respect for the harvesters and cast subtly, do you feel you'd still be an effective character or caster? It's CTN+6, Speed +2 and then an opposed stealth/perception check. Potentially flipping it around, how would you make a character like that and keep them useful?

It's an interesting connundrum. Mechanically the game is arguably balanced for non-subtle casting as evidenced by the fact that all casters including Divine have the same sorts of CTNs especially for the same spells.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

In Living Arcanis D&D, I often used the feat that enabled subtle casting when using arcane spells in an urban environment. If I were playing an Elder/Edritch caster in the ARPG rules, I'd probably use the subtle casting rules a lot.

I did at ArcaniCon several times try to establish a psionic Mind Link in the middle of a scene using subtle casting rules. It's very difficult (+12 to CTN, I recall) for psionics, but when we're already in a scene with witnesses around, it's the only way I was willing to try casting. I can't Mind Link everyone in the party, and I didn't always know in advance with whom I'd want the link. I think it worked only once or twice, and I mostly failed at those difficult spellcasting attempts.

My val'Mehan has also several times mentioned (honestly) that he can invoke a few spells only because of his Mehan blood. He doesn't want Harvesters to think he has the Gift.

From experience in some Year 1 adventures, that won't save you from being Harvested.

Mehan blood is quite the rage amongst the Wine Drinkers.

The main issue with the Harvester Threat right now is that in pre-written modules and Con time limits, the risk of being randomly harvested is very low. I know the Campaign Staff was preparing "Harvester Scenes" which could be placed into Mods, but until they are written there is not a lot of chance of being Harvested outside of a Harvester mod.

Again, the threat of Ymandragore can make itself known without an outright attempt at Harvesting in the mod itself. Anytime your cert says "Noticed by Ymandragore" your character should grind their teeth. Because it will eventually come back to haunt you.

Alas, I disagree. Giving a player the Notice of the Harvesters is utterly meaningless unless there is a follow up, and thus far there hasn't been.