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| Enemy of my Enemy https://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1384 |
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| Author: | wisper [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Enemy of my Enemy |
We had a curious conversation about this spell yesterday. It says: Quote: If you successfully affect your Target, upon his next action he must attack the foe of your choice with extreme prejudice, up to and including casting through 4 points of strain. The question we had was with two-weapon fighting, but I also see the same issue with say the spell Bleed. If the affected character is hit and uses two-weapon fighting because it is part of a very prejudice attack (IE gives a lot of damage), he makes the first attack, but does he follow through with the second attack. If he doesn't what happens to his second attack. For spells, like bleed, that can be sustained someone that uses one as a prejudice attack would sustain it, does it stay sustained after the first attack? I have been ruling NO as my characters love this spell, but it was a thought we all had. The way we have been playing it is they do their attack, and on their second attack they redirect the attack (or the sustainment its released). |
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| Author: | Nierite [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Enemy of my Enemy |
The TWF character can use he second attack on a real for, or tthe attack is wasted, effectively pushing the Hero by that speed. To clarify, you TWF with a Speed 5 weapon, needing 5+2+1 tick of speed. They attack as their action, then one tick later they are free of the spell. They can either attack a nearby enemy, or swing at air. Once started you can't just "abort" a TWF strike as it is not an interruptable action. |
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| Author: | wisper [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Enemy of my Enemy |
Well, that is where the issue arose, was would the second weapon be considered the same attack and there to strike the designated target. As you are suggesting it only counts for that single tick and the second attack would have to be redirected or wasted. That is what we figured but it was an interesting conversation. Some were inclined to see it abused as the TWF would follow through with both attacks as it was a "maneuver," and the spell caster would sustain the spell until he was enough strain to break the spell. |
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| Author: | val Holryn [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Enemy of my Enemy |
My guess it's 1 and done. I don't think EoME makes you sustain. That's what Puppet Master and higher level spells are potentially for. TWF might be a closer call since it is one manuever but as a judge I think you snap out of it after the first strike hits (or misses). |
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| Author: | Harliquinn [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Enemy of my Enemy |
TWF has been ruled in the past to be 2 actions, so only the first attack would be enemy of my enemy. Keep in mind, rarely is a TWF attack the most devastating that a creature has for use with Enemy of my Enemy. John |
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| Author: | lbxzero [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Enemy of my Enemy |
TWF is a weird case. It is 2 actions for the sake of bonuses and combining maneuvers with TWF. Unless the maneuver being combined with specifically says it applies to the offhand attack, the benefit went to the first attack. Here is the way I see Two Weapon Fighting. It is 2 actions, but it is 1 attack. That offhand attack on the next tick can either be wasted or the offhand attack, and no other choice. My honest opinion is that as long as there are no interruptions between the main hand attack and offhand attack, it is still part of Enemy of My Enemy influence. If you are pushed in between, it cancels. Never considered the possibility before about how a push affects TWF, but logic would suggest that an action that results in the character getting pushed would interrupt the off-hand action as you stumble before the follow-up. |
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| Author: | Hat [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Enemy of my Enemy |
lbxzero wrote: <snip>Here is the way I see Two Weapon Fighting. It is 2 actions, but it is 1 attack. That offhand attack on the next tick can either be wasted or the offhand attack, and no other choice. I disagree. It's a special maneuver that allows for 2 attacks in quick succession, but everything else about it indicates that they are 2 attacks. 1. They are executed on 2 different ticks 2. They use separate attack rolls 3. Any other technique, talent, spell, benefit etc. that is per attack based is only applied to the first attack 4. They use separate weapons If there's something I'm missing, can you point it out? With a sweep of his hat, Paul |
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| Author: | Harliquinn [ Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Enemy of my Enemy |
On the old boards, it was ruled as: 1 Maneuver 2 Actions 2 Attacks John |
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| Author: | lbxzero [ Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Enemy of my Enemy |
The issue is, TWF is an action in of itself, despite taking 2 actions to make 2 attack. On your next action, you choose TWF. TWF action is not over until the second attack even if it takes two actions. EoME says one action, not one attack. When it comes to sustain spells, sustaining is its own action. The next part, you are attacking with extreme prejudice. That doesn't mean you throw everything you have into one swing. It means you strike no matter the consequences, collateral damage, or whoever gets in the way. To perform a combat maneuver is an action, even if the maneuver takes 2 actions. Encapsulation is fun. |
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| Author: | Harliquinn [ Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Enemy of my Enemy |
Enemy of my Enemy means that the target will use its "best" attack possible (including casting a spell through 4 points of Strain). John |
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