@steve you can disagree all you want, but the shared campaign is not likely to ever allow crafting, particularly of magic items, thats the official word not just my opinion.

Josh,

Can you show me where the Initiate level of the path is forbidden in the campaign material? I am not finding it in the campaign guide.

Team Paradigm,

For can I get an official errata for the requirements since as pointed out before there is no skill called Arcanum (Elder, Eldritch, Primal) just Arcanum (Cants, Meditation, Thaumaturgy, Shamanism, and Sorcery). I need to know the errata for home play as well as the shared campaign. Also, my understanding is we cannot take item creation talents in the shared world campaign, and when a path grants them we are to substitute another talent is that the correct course of action? If it is not, and I have to take the talent at Adept can I at least use it to transfer runes on my own? If you ban the adept level altogether if I take initiate, which does not grant the inscribe rune talent can the other limited talents become not limited for someone who is an initiate Disciplus Geometricus?

Sincerely,
Matthew Jenkins
aka Talen Drake
aka Kaylith Dracul val'Sungha

[quote="SamhainIA"]@steve you can disagree all you want, but the shared campaign is not likely to ever allow crafting, particularly of magic items, thats the official word not just my opinion.[/quote]

nope, its not published in campaign material... if I look hard enough there is a quote from Henry somewhere saying that all of the published material is not automatically included in the campaign.

I know we have been here before on the previous boards, mr val'Sungha playing a race that doesn't exist in the books, and a path that's not allowed because crafting, substitution is fine for a home campaign, but this is a shared world campaign, what would happen if I just decided to arbitrarily made changes like that to my character because flavor?

Thread discussing val'Sungha

Henry on crafting

Implementing rules

If true, I think they are missing an opportunity. Yes, it would take a fair amount of work to hammer out rules that work and aren't easily abusable but crafting plays a much larger part in Arcanis than in most other fantasy games so it seems like it should be included in the shared campaign.

I would not expect crafting actual magic items but high quality items and runes seems like it should be workable. A simple off-the-cuff fix for runecrafting could be cost of materials is high (4Gc per tier?) and/or that the character is not a full runecrafter and can only craft/transfer runes for themselves. I don't remember FiM2 ever saying how expensive materials were and I am fine with altering rules for shared campaigns to avoid abuse (as long as they are still useful).

I would ask that we try and keep this polite at least if not friendly. People have strong feelings and tone can be misinterpreted.

With regard to the val'Sungha question, nothing in the referenced thread specifically states that it is unplayable by any campaign authority. I'm fairly certain that other players have created val'Sungha and val'Haupt characters. The nations and regions they're from are legal. The question becomes how to reflect them in game play. All vals grant a bump to Charisma and the same benefits otherwise. Mechanically if a player selected val as a race and did not take a bloodline ability as there are none defined plus selected Charisma as the stat bump that's completely valid for any val build no matter the name or the bloodline. If they became psionically awakened, they would be fine they simply wouldn't gain access to any bloodline specific abilities. They would be forced to use a subset until such time as the rules supported them.

In terms of a Kio sword or armor, it is possible to gain them as a non-Kio using the Heirloom talent as noted:

Furthermore, Kio Swords and Armor are restricted items
and may only be acquired by meeting one of the following
criteria:
• Race: Kio
• Selected as heirloom courtesy of the Heirloom talent
• Obtained from a campaign-issued certificate

p. 4 Version 2013-06, 1.3 Effective Date: November 19th, 2013

The bloodlines in question exist within the world and have not previously required special access to them. I can think of at least a few bloodlines I'd want to see documentation on as they've been granted as special rewards, but these at least I don't see a problem with. If there are no mechanical benefits and RP ones are subject to GM decision as they already are, then I expect they'd be fine pending an official ruling.

As for what materials are campaign legal, I'll refer to the current version of the campaign guide:

"Allowed Sourcebooks
and Documents
LEGENDS OF ARCANIS uses the Arcanis Roleplaying Game
as its ruleset. All products within the Arcanis Roleplaying
Game line are valid for use in the campaign from the date
they are published.

All LEGENDS OF ARCANIS heroes must comply with the
most current versions of each of the following documents:

• LEGENDS OF ARCANIS Campaign Guide (this document)
• Paradigm Concepts Product Errata and Updates
please note, this is not a single document, but rather
the ensemble collection of product errata that have
been released by Paradigm Concepts, Inc"

p. 4 Version 2013-06, 1.3 Effective Date: November 19th, 2013

By this reading, the Path is in fact a legal selection. Combined with Henry's note on crafting


Friday Sept. 27, 2013 (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=389&p=4493&hilit=crafting#p4493)

would seem to indicate that the Path is valid, but you cannot gain a benefit for doing so within the shared campaign. If the player(s) are willing to operate within those restrictions and pay to have their own runes created and moved, I again don't see a problem. No mechanical or financial benefit for doing so and no impact to the campaign through complications or economy impact.

If players go this route and then press for being able to do something more with it than is currently allowed they run the risk of the Path being officially banned.

I think there is common ground here that both sides can be comfortable with.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

I believe Henry put it best when this subject came up:

"The issue I have with the Master Smith option that you mention is that it would effectively take a character out of play. Such an apprenticeship would require a considerable amount of time to complete. If taken as a background, then what would be the real benefit? Crafting of items, etc is not supported by the campaign, so I don't see it being worth the money spent."

IMHO, the campaign staff has gone to great lengths to streamline the Arcanis play experience based on players' feedback...eliminating cost of living, restoring balance to fate points, etc.. This particular Path is great for home campaigns but in the current system in place where we have more checks and balances to deal with from a managerial perspective, it is not as feasible as some players would like.

I'm not certain but I don't believe a non-Kio can take Heirloom for a Kio Sword (Armor may be different).

John

I feel Hat has clarified it spectacularly and blackthorn has given the exact reason.
The Path and Talents are not banned, but there are no rules in effect in the shared campaign for crafting. So you can take these things, but you can't use them in the shared campaign. If you are fine with having Talents that provide you zero mechanical benefit then take the Path. But understand there is no substitutions or lesser effects for you.

wilcoxon is also right. PCI is losing out on an opportunity to provide crafting to players who really want it. These boards have really shown that some players REALLY want it. But Henry has clearly stated that crafting is a low priority on the list.


I do feel the val'Sungha as playable is separate issue and shouldn't be part of this thread. But I understand that SamhainIA was hoping to show that creating ad hoc rules are not allowed. Again Henry has stated this

Again folks I am not here to debate weather my character is legal. I am trying to get an official errata to FiM 2 so that we know how to use the path.

I have said this before and I will say it again: The shared campaign is all about playing the same game as everyone else, the rules that are out there are to provide a level playing field for players and GM's alike. if you don't want to follow those rules, or if you want to do something outside of those rules, you are better off exploring that character concept outside of the shared campaign. and playing something within the rules as part of the shared campaign.