Paradigm Concepts :: View topic - Infernal Servant and Sarishan Binder

Just to clarify, a Tier 3 hero can get the Infernal Servant talent by going down the Sarishan Binder path. But as the talent is a tier 4 talent, it basically would only become effective and he would gain an infernal servant when he reaches tier 4 and could also only then improve it by gaining the loyal companion talent? Correct?
Thanks for clarification.

Also to clear things up.. when you get Infernal Companion you gain Loyal Companion at Tier III, but instead of getting a Tier I animal and improving it... you gain a Tier III infernal at it's base stats, after which you can take Loyal Companion IV & V to further improve it's attributes.

PCI_StatMonkey wrote:

So when you take it you get the tier three loyal companion but get an infernal companion at base stats (no +2 from the tier III talent). But you can at the next tier take the Tier IV talent and go from no bonus on the companion, straight to a +3? That seems a huge jump in one talent tier.

sounds like it, but its the same as making that TIII monster a TIV monster

Tier I: Your companion gains a +1 to all skills and defenses.
You gain +2 to all Beast Lore and Ride (if applicable) checks
when dealing with your companion.
Tier II: Your companion gains +2 to all Action Skill Rolls
and defenses. You gain a +2 bonus to all Empathy checks
when dealing with your animal companion. Lastly, from this
point onwards, your companion’s Stamina is equal to your
own.
Tier III: Your companion gains +2 to all
Action Skill Rolls and defenses.
Tier IV: Your companion gains +3 to all
Action Skill Rolls and defenses.
Tier V: Your companion gains +4 to all Action Skill Rolls
and defenses.

Quote:

There little-to-no difference between them. With, say, a Wolf you gain a base version of the animal, and automatically gain a +1. At Tier II you gain a further +2, giving a net increase of +3 over the base animal. At Tier III you gain an additional +2, for a net gain of +5 over the base animal. At Tier I you gain an additional +3, for a net gain of +8 over the base animal. At Tier V you gain a +4, for a net gain of +12.

Normal monsters typically gain +3 to their stats/tier (+4 at IV and V IIRC). This means that at Tier III they gain a total of +9 for skills (and defences), plus whatever talents and bonus' they have. At the same point, the above wolf will have +5 IN ADDITION to whatever skill bonus they already had, which for an Alpha Wolf is +5. This means that at the same Tier, the Wolf would get a +10.

Author:	PeteZero [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:00 am ]
Post subject:	Infernal Servant and Sarishan Binder
Just to clarify, a Tier 3 hero can get the Infernal Servant talent by going down the Sarishan Binder path. But as the talent is a tier 4 talent, it basically would only become effective and he would gain an infernal servant when he reaches tier 4 and could also only then improve it by gaining the loyal companion talent? Correct? Thanks for clarification.

Author:	PCI_StatMonkey [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Infernal Servant and Sarishan Binder
PeteZero wrote: Just to clarify, a Tier 3 hero can get the Infernal Servant talent by going down the Sarishan Binder path. But as the talent is a tier 4 talent, it basically would only become effective and he would gain an infernal servant when he reaches tier 4 and could also only then improve it by gaining the loyal companion talent? Correct? Thanks for clarification. That sounds like it needs some kind of errata.. I'll look it over, you should have access to the servant as soon as you get it from your path

Author:	PeteZero [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Infernal Servant and Sarishan Binder
So, path overrules then the tier 4 requirement? Because under talents it is listed as Requirements: Hero Tier IV, val’Mehan. But I can take Tier 1: Anoined Priest, Tier 2: Sarishan Binder Initiate and Tier 3 Sarishan Binder Master - gaining the Infernal Servant talent. And under the benefit section something which does not help to clarify it: When you first choose this bloodline power, you gain it as a Tier 3 Talent. So maybe yes, as a Sarishan Binder you get it as a tier 3 talent, and get and improve your infernal from then on, taking loyal companion 3, 4 and 5 as a non-Sarishan Binder you can only take it at tier 4 as a bloodline talent, thus only improving it with the tier 4 and 5 talent version? For the loyal companion talent - the errata is not 100% clear, can you just take the tier 3 talent of loyal companion, or would you need to take tier 1 and 2 as well to improve your infernal? And I guess you don't need to meet the requirements: Animal Affinity (ta), Beast Lore as a trained skill - would make no sense for infernals.

Author:	PCI_StatMonkey [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Infernal Servant and Sarishan Binder
Now that I have had a chance to look it over As things stand now, getting Infernal Servant at Tier III may be a little too powerful, baring editing the talent... as it stands now.. you need to be Tier IV before you can use the talent. Also to clear things up.. when you get Infernal Companion you gain Loyal Companion at Tier III, but instead of getting a Tier I animal and improving it... you gain a Tier III infernal at it's base stats, after which you can take Loyal Companion IV & V to further improve it's attributes. As for pre-requirements, I would need to edit the talent.. but for now, you meet all the requirements for further improving your infernal companion (Monster Lore: Infernals and Alien Understanding (Infernals) I'll see if I can squeeze this errata into the game tonight

Author:	toodeep [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Infernal Servant and Sarishan Binder
PCI_StatMonkey wrote: Also to clear things up.. when you get Infernal Companion you gain Loyal Companion at Tier III, but instead of getting a Tier I animal and improving it... you gain a Tier III infernal at it's base stats, after which you can take Loyal Companion IV & V to further improve it's attributes. So when you take it you get the tier three loyal companion but get an infernal companion at base stats (no +2 from the tier III talent). But you can at the next tier take the Tier IV talent and go from no bonus on the companion, straight to a +3? That seems a huge jump in one talent tier.

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Author:	PCI_StatMonkey [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Infernal Servant and Sarishan Binder
toodeep wrote: PCI_StatMonkey wrote: Also to clear things up.. when you get Infernal Companion you gain Loyal Companion at Tier III, but instead of getting a Tier I animal and improving it... you gain a Tier III infernal at it's base stats, after which you can take Loyal Companion IV & V to further improve it's attributes. So when you take it you get the tier three loyal companion but get an infernal companion at base stats (no +2 from the tier III talent). But you can at the next tier take the Tier IV talent and go from no bonus on the companion, straight to a +3? That seems a huge jump in one talent tier. sounds like it, but its the same as making that TIII monster a TIV monster

Author:	toodeep [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Infernal Servant and Sarishan Binder
PCI_StatMonkey wrote: sounds like it, but its the same as making that TIII monster a TIV monster I'll take your word for it, since I am not that up on monster advancements. But it is clear that the infernal servant went from better than a normal companion to Waaay better than a normal companion, because in the same tier change everyone else's companion only went up by +1

Author:	Nierite [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Infernal Servant and Sarishan Binder
Quote: Tier I: Your companion gains a +1 to all skills and defenses. You gain +2 to all Beast Lore and Ride (if applicable) checks when dealing with your companion. Tier II: Your companion gains +2 to all Action Skill Rolls and defenses. You gain a +2 bonus to all Empathy checks when dealing with your animal companion. Lastly, from this point onwards, your companion’s Stamina is equal to your own. Tier III: Your companion gains +2 to all Action Skill Rolls and defenses. Tier IV: Your companion gains +3 to all Action Skill Rolls and defenses. Tier V: Your companion gains +4 to all Action Skill Rolls and defenses. There little-to-no difference between them. With, say, a Wolf you gain a base version of the animal, and automatically gain a +1. At Tier II you gain a further +2, giving a net increase of +3 over the base animal. At Tier III you gain an additional +2, for a net gain of +5 over the base animal. At Tier I you gain an additional +3, for a net gain of +8 over the base animal. At Tier V you gain a +4, for a net gain of +12. Normal monsters typically gain +3 to their stats/tier (+4 at IV and V IIRC). This means that at Tier III they gain a total of +9 for skills (and defences), plus whatever talents and bonus' they have. At the same point, the above wolf will have +5 IN ADDITION to whatever skill bonus they already had, which for an Alpha Wolf is +5. This means that at the same Tier, the Wolf would get a +10.

Author:	toodeep [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Infernal Servant and Sarishan Binder
Nierite wrote: Quote: Tier I: Your companion gains a +1 to all skills and defenses. You gain +2 to all Beast Lore and Ride (if applicable) checks when dealing with your companion. Tier II: Your companion gains +2 to all Action Skill Rolls and defenses. You gain a +2 bonus to all Empathy checks when dealing with your animal companion. Lastly, from this point onwards, your companion’s Stamina is equal to your own. Tier III: Your companion gains +2 to all Action Skill Rolls and defenses. Tier IV: Your companion gains +3 to all Action Skill Rolls and defenses. Tier V: Your companion gains +4 to all Action Skill Rolls and defenses. There little-to-no difference between them. With, say, a Wolf you gain a base version of the animal, and automatically gain a +1. At Tier II you gain a further +2, giving a net increase of +3 over the base animal. At Tier III you gain an additional +2, for a net gain of +5 over the base animal. At Tier I you gain an additional +3, for a net gain of +8 over the base animal. At Tier V you gain a +4, for a net gain of +12. Normal monsters typically gain +3 to their stats/tier (+4 at IV and V IIRC). This means that at Tier III they gain a total of +9 for skills (and defences), plus whatever talents and bonus' they have. At the same point, the above wolf will have +5 IN ADDITION to whatever skill bonus they already had, which for an Alpha Wolf is +5. This means that at the same Tier, the Wolf would get a +10. Where does it say those are additional? I thought you got an animal at tier 1 and it got a +1 (cumulative) each tier. So at the end it is only at wolf +4. These are all just talents, so each tier doesn't stack with the previous.

Author:	Harliquinn [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Infernal Servant and Sarishan Binder
Related general question: When it days Tier I or Tier III does that mean a creature exactly Tier I or III? Or does it mean a creature between Tier I.1 and Tier I.10? John

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