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Spinning Strike
https://forums.paradigmconcepts.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1047		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  wisper [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Spinning Strike
In the maneuver it says "Special: The Speed cost of this maneuver replaces the standard speed cost incurred by two-weapon fighting." I am trying to get an understanding of this.

My character uses two short swords (sp 4):

On a normal two-weapon attack with the talent he attacks on tick 1, on tick 2 he attacks with off-hand and then waits for his next turn on 8, where he can do another two-weapon attack.

The way I understand spinning strikes is:

He attacks on tick 1, on tick 2 he attacks with off-hand and then waits for his next turn on 3, but gains a recovery of 2. He can now attack on 3 but with a normal attack, then he waits for his next attack on 7 were he can then do another two-weapon attack.
Author:  Nierite [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinning Strike
Assuming 2x Short Swords:

Tick 1, Primary Hand
Tick 2, Secondary Hand
Tick 7, Next action and have recovery 2

The speed of the manuever is +1(2), which means it is weapons speed+1(2)
Author:  wisper [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinning Strike
Ah, New I was reading it wrong. So instead of the +2 to the weapon speed that two weapon gives you , you use the +1 but gain a recovery.
Author:  wisper [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinning Strike
Had another thought, if you do a spinning strike then your next attack has to be a normal attack, because of the recovery. Correct? I couldn't do another two-weapon attack, could I ?
Author:  Nierite [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinning Strike
You couldn't do any attack with Recovery, no. That said, a normal TWF attack has NO recovery.
Author:  wisper [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinning Strike
Actually an normal TWF has a recovery of 2. But the talent does not, but since SS needs TWF to obtain it, I guess it is rather mute.
Author:  DeadZone [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinning Strike
So, with spinning strikes, for the price of gaining two recovery, you gain 1 tick speed and potentially some extra damage on the basic attack. In both cases, you could do a maneuver with your first attack, but that would end up being an advanced maneuver.

Scott
Author:  Southernskies [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinning Strike
Don't forget the attack penalty!

Against higher defences, gaining a tick or two is not worth the -2 (or -3, even -4 in certain edge cases) penalty to the attack roll.

I have TWF (ta) and in general only use it when I need to front-load the attacks (taking multiple minions out, or 'need to kill this guy before his next action' reasons). Haven't been able to fit Spinning Strikes into my T1 tree yet due to all the other character-driven demands (Quickdraw, Quick, Str of the Coryani Heart, Prestidigitation...)
Author:  Deviknyte [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinning Strike
Well TWF (ta) is -1 tick normally for a - 2 penalty to both attacks (without Balanced Blades). With 2 exceptional short swords you are at - 0 ticks for a - 2 penalty.

Spinning Strikes (and Trap and Cut) with 2 short swords is -2 ticks, - 1 with 2 exceptional weapons.
Author:  wisper [ Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spinning Strike
Because I am a visual person, and hate just reading numbers in a paragraph. I have broken each option into the ticks.

Weapon: Dual Short Swords (spd: 4)

Normal Two-Weapon Fighting
Tick 1.1: Two-Weapon Normal Attack (-3 att)
Tick 1.3: Two-Weapon Off-hand Attack (-4 att)
Tick 1.9: Normal Attack (recovery 2 starts)
Tick 1.11: Recovery over, may use two-weapon on the next attack

Two-Weapon Fighting (ta)
Tick 1.1: Two-Weapon (ta) Normal Attack (-2 att)
Tick 1.2: Two-Weapon (ta) Off-hand Attack (-2 att)
Tick 1.8: May make another Two-Weapon (ta) attack

Spinning Strikes
Tick 1.1: Spinning Strikes Normal Attack (-2 att), May take 5' step
Tick 1.2: Spinning Strikes Off-hand Attack (-2 att)
Tick 1.7: May make another Two-Weapon (ta) normal attack (-2 att) (2 recovery starts)
Tick 1.8: Two-Weapon (ta) Off-hand Attack (-2 att)
Tick 1.9: Recovery over
Tick 2.2: May do either Spinning Strikes or Two-Weapon (ta)

Spinning Strikes and Trap and Cut
Tick 1.1: Spinning Strikes Trap and Cut Normal Attack (-2 att), May take 5' step
Tick 1.2: Spinning Strikes Trap and Cut Off-hand Attack (+1 att)
Tick 1.7: May make another Two-Weapon (ta) normal attack (-2 att) (3 recovery starts)
Tick 1.8: Two-Weapon (ta) Off-hand Attack (-2 att)
Tick 1.10: Recovery over
Tick 2.2: May do either Spinning Strikes or Two-Weapon (ta)

Spinning Strikes and Trap and Cut [using Balanced Blades (ta)]
Tick 1.1: Spinning Strikes Trap and Cut Normal Attack (-1 att), May take 5' step
Tick 1.2: Spinning Strikes Trap and Cut Off-hand Attack (+2 att)
Tick 1.7: May make another Two-Weapon (ta) normal attack (-1 att) (3 recovery starts)
Tick 1.8: Two-Weapon (ta) Off-hand Attack (-1 att)
Tick 1.10: Recovery over
Tick 2.2: May do either Spinning Strikes or Two-Weapon (ta)

Is this accurate?
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