Oh, I'm not necessarily opposed to there being other ways to obtain Advanced Armor Training. However, if they do add other ways, then it detracts from the appeal of Martial archetype (which is already my second least favorite (Divine being my least)).

I'd take divine over arcane ... just saying.

I also agree that Advanced Armor Training is not something I want to see be more common. That would undermine the martial archetype. I already have mixed feelings about the errata that grants it the squire background. If you get heirloom armor you're only eating 1 point of bulk (assuming a Gothic Cuirass or Lorica). That's totally "doable." Especially if you are using a shield. If for some reason you are taking one of the "super heavy" armors (which you'll get through an heirloom) and your not a martial archetype (or a royal marine) then my question is ... why.

In my opinion the Martial Archetype is the weakest mechanically of all 4. If you disagree you're welcome to chime in on the thread I started over it. I'm open to being convinced, but it's got to be data driven rather than gut feel. As such I'm not inclined to give to others one of the few things that helps the Archetype.

In terms of mimicking the effects of the Talent, a 5 Gc investment in a Fine Celerity (Armor) rune gives back the 5' of Pace. The Quick talent can help offset the movement penalty and some casters have options such as Quicken Step.

Between Exceptional armor and a fine Celerity Rune everything short of Caphractos Segmentata or Andrean Plate can bring a PC's movement back up to full.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul

Short tangent...



I'm really not fond of either Divine or Arcane but there are some ASCs that are impossible to take at creation without being Arcane (whereas I've never worked up a character with DSC that didn't come out better as an Expert than a Divine). I suppose if I wanted a psionic, divine Val then I'd use Divine...

There are certainly times when the Divine archetype is more appropriate. Divine builds that are heavy talent builds either Devout talents or Learn Spell benefit from it as a base. Depending on the deity, the armor proficiency option can be a real benefit as well for those gods that grant access to heavy armor. Also, if you're looking for a robust talent mix which is Devout and not Skill talent based, it works better as well. Knowing what you want to excel in is critical obviously and what's "good enough". The Inspirational Presence talent is nice and only available to Divine Archetypes and Holy Champions. Not a lot by itself, but a nice add.

The Arcane archetype has a lot going for it as well especially as it lends itself well to more sneaky characters with Deceit and Stealth being part of the core skill advancement.

With a sweep of his hat,

Paul