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 Post subject: Attribute die bump stacking
PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:38 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:41 pm
Posts: 355
Location: Australia
Hi there

Just wanted to check some things regarding die bump stacking with the hive mind

My understanding is that you can do to 1d12+2 unless you have something that states otherwise

So if I have a Might of 1d12
+ Magic item that gives die bump
+ Furious Rage
+ Bloodline talent
Then I would still only have 1d12+2 for might

If my Might is naturally increased to 1d12+2 and I have all the items listed above, then they will have no actual effect.

Just wanted to check I was correct

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: Attribute die bump stacking
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:13 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:46 pm
Posts: 1299
My recollection is that 1d12 die bumps to 2d6.


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 Post subject: Re: Attribute die bump stacking
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 796
Location: Michigan
It mas my understanding that normally die bumps continued to stack up as additional +2's, so if you had 1d12+2 and got a die bump, it went to 1d12+4. pg 91 which deals with die bumps doesn't mention any maximum to the number of bonus's to a d12 die that can be applied, so as long as you follow the stacking rules that are provided in the errata you should be fine.

The other option is to get something that allows you to die bump from a d12 to 2d6, like a rune of might, and then die bump it up from there, though the rune of might explicitly limits that to a 2d8, if you use that option.

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 Post subject: Re: Attribute die bump stacking
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:47 am
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Location: Central Alberta
Per my remembrance of the rule, a Medium creature cannot have a physical Attribute higher than d12. All further bumps, as toodeep suggest, is a +2, +4, etc unless the ability specifically states otherwise.

Essentially: you will only ever (unless otherwise stated) have a single die which can explode (d12). If you bumped to 2d6, while it is no different than d12 in max roll, your minimum is 2 and not 1, and you have 2 chance to explode (which on a d6 is a 1 in 6). Medium creatures don't get this advantage compared to larger creatures.

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 Post subject: Re: Attribute die bump stacking
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:13 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
Posts: 1554
I did the math on exploding dice, and the math on the mulriple stat dice where only one explodes:
Avg roll value R = .5 N (N+1)/(N-1) where N is the max value on the die. Is good for determining the value of the average of an exploding die:
Die, avg, exploding avg
D4, 2.5, 3.33
D6, 3.5, 4.20
D8, 4.5, 5.14
D10, 5.5, 6.11
D12, 6.5, 7.09
Now past that still strictly speaking of averages, you can add a non exploding die and an exploding die:

2d6, is 7.70
2d8 is 9.65
2d10 11.61
2d12 13.59
(Admitedky this is a bit low by less than 1 across the board, it doesnt acount truly for both dice being able to explode but only taking one

Comparitively
D12 +2 is 9.09
D12 +4 is 11.09
D12 +6 is 13.09
D12 +8 is 15.09

As this relates to the original question: if you can stay in D12 + range( not take the might rune ) your average damage will be higher.

The might rune specifically states you bump to 2d6 instead of d12+2, so imo its great if it gets ya to d12, but if it were to push you out of the d12+2 range i woukd skip it.

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 Post subject: Re: Attribute die bump stacking
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:11 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:37 pm
Posts: 796
Location: Michigan
I do not think the calculations above allow for the fact that once you bump to 2dX the odds of a die explosion more than double. i.e. the odds of a die explosion are 1 in 12 (approx 8%), while the odds of a die explosion for 2d6 is more (almost 30%), mainly because you get an explosion if you roll a 6 on either die (though admittedly, the value of an explosion is less on a d6 than a d12)

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 Post subject: Re: Attribute die bump stacking
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:41 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:36 am
Posts: 1554
I did add a note about that already, thr difference is less than 1 ( at least in the case of 2d6. A D6 on avg is 3.5, and an exploding D6 is 4.2, so at max, the average is 8.4, the value i provided was 7.7, and I am happy to concede the point that is more than 7.7 and less than 8.4 but my point is that number is still signifacantly less than the average of 1d12+2, 9.09.

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 Post subject: Re: Attribute die bump stacking
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:06 am
Posts: 891
Plugged both into AnyDice to compare:
https://anydice.com/program/16559
Click: "Graph" and "At Least" for visual output.

For results between 4 and 12, rolling Mi: 2d6 is a couple of points ahead of 1d12+2
Outside that range, it is effectively level.

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